Rebirth....

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Now if Jesus had instead invented the iPhone or the MRI scanner then there'd be something interesting talk about...     

Hillside...…..

I wonder...…….

Do you ever get Trainspotters or Pylon enthusiasts coming up and advising you to ''Get a life?'

[Owlswing]

So anyway as we were saying before the king of the derail turned up, "death is final" is the working assumption until and unless anyone provides evidence to the contrary. So far no-one has managed that, and even leaving aside the manifest flaws in the Christian (and other religion's) tale of various individuals coming back from the dead the notion should at least give pause I'd have thought given that we see the basic death & re-birth narrative repeated endlessly in more ancient traditions, beginning with observations about the winter solstice. Now if Jesus had instead invented the iPhone or the MRI scanner then there'd be something interesting talk about...     

Yes, I believe in "rebirth" - I do NOT, in any way shape or form, believe in the dead returning to life. AS I stated in my earlier post, my belief is in the return of the spirit of a person who has passed away in a new body.

Also as I have stated to the, apparent, terminal boredom of other members, and unlike Christianity for one - my religious beliefs are FAITH NOT FACT. 

[Walter]

I believe I won last Saturdays lottery jackpot

but my beliefs are FAITH NOT FACT and when I went to buy a new car today I was laughed out of the showroom 

[BeRational]

Yes, I believe in "rebirth" - I do NOT, in any way shape or form, believe in the dead returning to life. AS I stated in my earlier post, my belief is in the return of the spirit of a person who has passed away in a new body.

Also as I have stated to the, apparent, terminal boredom of other members, and unlike Christianity for one - my religious beliefs are FAITH NOT FACT.

Why would you believe anything on faith, just wondering.

I want to believe as many true things as possible, and as few false things.

This is not your aim it would seem?

[Sriram]

For those who want evidence, we must remember that 'evidence' isn't as straight forward as some might think...

https://tsriramrao.wordpress.com/2019/01/13/evidence/

[Owlswing]

Why would you believe anything on faith, just wondering.

I want to believe as many true things as possible, and as few false things.

This is not your aim it would seem?

Only religion - my choice - it doesn't work for things that can be proven like being able to prove that some sarky plonker HASN'T won the lottery!

[Stranger]

For those who want evidence, we must remember that 'evidence' isn't as straight forward as some might think...

https://tsriramrao.wordpress.com/2019/01/13/evidence/

It is, actually. The linked article is one of your silliest - it displays staggering amounts of ignorance and misunderstanding.

We can only have evidence for a hypothesis if it makes predictions about the outcome of experiments or observations that are not predicted by rival hypotheses. The evidence is the result of said experiments or observations.

[BeRational]

Only religion - my choice - it doesn't work for things that can be proven like being able to prove that some sarky plonker HASN'T won the lottery!

As a matter of interest, why do you apply this faith based reasoning for your religion, when you would not use it in any other area?

Is is that you like the religion and just want to adopt it?

[Gordon]

For those who want evidence, we must remember that 'evidence' isn't as straight forward as some might think...

https://tsriramrao.wordpress.com/2019/01/13/evidence/

Read it: I'm afraid you have a lot of homework to get through, such as the need for a method to give context to what is claimed as 'evidence'.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

For those who want evidence, we must remember that 'evidence' isn't as straight forward as some might think...

https://tsriramrao.wordpress.com/2019/01/13/evidence/

This is particularly stupid stuff. Leaving aside the errors is contains, it tries to draw an equivalence between natural phenomena and "spiritual" claims, only for the latter the evidence must be so, like, really hard to find, out there but we just don't see it yet, and and and...

Well yes, anything might be. Trouble is, the same is true for any conjecture, guess, assertion or anything else anyone might believe. I for example might believe that the Queen (gawd bless 'er) is a shape-shifting lizard. Where's the evidence for that? Well you know, finding evidence is really hard and stuff but hey, she's deffo a shape-shifting lizard so my belief must be correct then right?     

[Sriram]

Well...many of you have been programmed to think in certain microscopic ways. That is not going to change....in this lifetime!

That is where rebirth comes in. A new body, a new upbringing, a new culture....that'll do the trick. 

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

Well...many of you have been programmed to think in certain microscopic ways. That is not going to change....in this lifetime!

That is where rebirth comes in. A new body, a new upbringing, a new culture....that'll do the trick. 

We've also been "programmed" to grasp that a head full of cotton wool is no substitute for thinking. 

[Stranger]

Well...many of you have been programmed to think in certain microscopic ways.

Whereas you seem to have been "programmed" not to think much at all, preferring to cling to your comforting preconceptions and misunderstandings...

[jeremyp]

So you think the idea might die...….and then come back again in another form?

So Jesus was reincarnated as himself?

[Walter]

Only religion - my choice - it doesn't work for things that can be proven like being able to prove that some sarky plonker HASN'T won the lottery!

when your head is full of woo there's not much room left for rational thinking . And for those who want a new car but haven't won the lottery there's always credit, as long as you can PROVE your ability to repay it.

[Sriram]

So Jesus was reincarnated as himself?

Jesus was Elisha in his previous birth, some people think. And John was Elijah, I think.

[Sriram]

Well...many of you have been programmed to think in certain microscopic ways. That is not going to change....in this lifetime!

That is where rebirth comes in. A new body, a new upbringing, a new culture....that'll do the trick. 

One round in Saudi Arabia, performing namaz five times a day....would do some of you lot of good.  Or maybe in a orthodox Jewish family.

A good possibility IMO.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

One round in Saudi Arabia, performing namaz five times a day....would do some of you lot of good.  Or maybe in a orthodox Jewish family.

A good possibility IMO.

Or maybe do the hosts some good when they realise that, like you, they too have replaced thinking with cotton wool.

One of the several problems with your approach is that, when it matters, you don't actually mean it. If you needed lifesaving surgery you'd opt for the surgeon who'd been "indoctrinated" in evidence-based education and not for the shaman who offered to light a bunch of sage leaves. If you needed to visit relatives you'd opt for a 'plane with a pilot who'd been "indoctrinated" in evidence-based education and not for a yogic levitator at the controls. If you wanted to build an extension on your house you'd opt for the structural engineer who'd been "indoctrinated" in evidence-based education and not for the mystic who told you it'd stay up just fine provided you remembered to bury a cat and a lucky horseshoe in the foundations.

I other words you can believe any nonsense you like, but when it actually matters my guess is that you'd rely on the "microscopic" thinkers you blithely deride over the woo merchants every time.

Am I right?     

[Sriram]

Sriram,

Or maybe do the hosts some good when they realise that, like you, they too have replaced thinking with cotton wool.

One of the several problems with your approach is that, when it matters, you don't actually mean it. If you needed lifesaving surgery you'd opt for the surgeon who'd been "indoctrinated" in evidence-based education and not for the shaman who offered to light a bunch of sage leaves. If you needed to visit relatives you'd opt for a 'plane with a pilot who'd been "indoctrinated" in evidence-based education and not for a yogic levitator at the controls. If you wanted to build an extension on your house you'd opt for the structural engineer who'd been "indoctrinated" in evidence-based education and not for the mystic who told you it'd stay up just fine provided you remembered to bury a cat and a lucky horseshoe in the foundations.

I other words you can believe any nonsense you like, but when it actually matters my guess is that you'd rely on the "microscopic" thinkers you blithely deride over the woo merchants every time.

Am I right?     

What is so remarkable about that?  The practical and the profound have always existed side by side.

[Stranger]

What is so remarkable about that?  The practical and the profound have always existed side by side.

Woolly thinking, baseless faith, and obstinate misunderstanding, are not actually profound...

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

What is so remarkable about that?  The practical and the profound have always existed side by side.

It's not so much remarkable as contemptible. Why? Because by giving credence to woo you encourage others to do the same - only some of those people may not be as careful as you to allow themselves an escape hatch when it actually matters and will throw away their medicines to practice instead whichever charlatanism has taken their fancy. And that hurts people - real people in the real world that is.

To put it another way: there's nothing "profound" about gibberish, and asserting that there is is a retrograde act for all of us.     

[Sriram]

Don't be silly.....blue!   Philosophy has always existed.  There is always speculation about matters we cannot readily see and experience.

Even in science you have the very practical  aspects of measuring speeds and distances and side by side you have the wave particle duality, the non local influence of particles, Dark Energy, Strings, 11 dimensions, multiverses and so on.

What are you getting so insecure about anyway?!   

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

Don't be silly.....blue!   Philosophy has always existed.  There is always speculation about matters we cannot readily see and experience.

You can speculate about anything you like, but that doesn’t make it philosophy. 

Even in science you have the very practical  aspects of measuring speeds and distances and side by side you have the wave particle duality, the non local influence of particles, Dark Energy, Strings, 11 dimensions, multiverses and so on.

Yes, and they’re called hypotheses – ideas that await disconfirming, amending or confirming. You though skip all that in favour of just asserting the confirming bit. Then you rely on hopeless YouTube videos or mindless articles for support. The last article for example said that evidence was hard to get sometimes, and implied that that was the only problem with finding evidence for the “spiritual”. I may as well have said that you should take leprechauns seriously because, you know, the evidence for them can be hard to find and all that.

Doesn’t wash does it.     

What are you getting so insecure about anyway?!

I’m not insecure at all. I just think that people who peddle idiocy and bad thinking encourage real world behaviours that hurt people: “The doctor said I need chemo, but I reckon homeopathy is the better option” etc.   

[Sriram]

You are going around in circles ...blue.  Reincarnation is also a hypothesis. Some people like Ian Stevenson and Jim Tucker have even got evidence for it.

No need to get flustered about it. 

As I said, a nice rebirth in a different (less blinkered) environment would do you lot of good!! 

[Sriram]

And there are possible alternatives to chemo....

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/cancer/in-depth/cancer-treatment/art-20047246