Rebirth....

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

You are going around in circles ...blue.

Not so far I'm not - I'm just explaining to you where you keep going wrong and why it matters. Repeating it because you ignore it isn't going round in circles at all.

Reincarnation is also a hypothesis. Some people like Ian Stevenson and Jim Tucker have even got evidence for it.

I don't know about the second one, but if you'd bother to read the criticisms of Stevenson you'd know that what he actually had was lots of confirmation bias and wishful thinking - and not evidence at all. 

No need to get flustered about it.

No-one is. I'd just prefer it if you listened, and think that the world would be a better place if you stopped peddling idiocies.
 

As I said, a nice rebirth in a different (less blinkered) environment would do you lot of good!! 

And as I said, no it wouldn't - not least because the only "blinkers" here are yours. Try taking them off and instead applying some analysis to your woo to see why it's gibberish.   

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

And there are possible alternatives to chemo....

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/cancer/in-depth/cancer-treatment/art-20047246

Wrong again. If you bothered to read the article you linked to you'd see that it does NOT say that these things are "alternatives to chemo" at all. What it actually says it that some people may find that trying them IN ADDITION to chemo helps relieves symptoms of anxiety etc. Can you begin to see now why someone who listened to you and acted on it could do themselves more harm than good?

Here's the relevant stuff you didn't bother with:

"Alternative cancer treatments may not play a direct role in curing your cancer, but they may help you cope with signs and symptoms caused by cancer and cancer treatments. Common signs and symptoms such as anxiety, fatigue, nausea and vomiting, pain, difficulty sleeping, and stress may be lessened by alternative treatments.

Integrating the best of evidence-based complementary and alternative cancer treatments with the treatments you receive from your doctor may help relieve many of the symptoms associated with cancer and its treatment. Discuss all of your options with your doctor and together you can determine which strategies might work for you and which are likely to have no benefit."

Now focus on that "Integrating the best of evidence-based complementary and alternative cancer treatments with the treatments you receive from your doctor" for a bit.

Have you go it yet? Can you see that "integrating with" is pretty much the opposite of "use as an alternative to"?

Anything?

[Sriram]

Well.....chemo doesn't CURE the cancer either...

Anyway thanks ...blue.

Cheers.

Sriram

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

Well.....chemo doesn't CURE the cancer either...

Anyway thanks ...blue.

Cheers.

Sriram

Yes it can, and frequently does.

Why have you just lied about that, and why have you ignored your last error of claiming that an article argued for alternatives to chemo when it did no such thing? 

Here's Wiki on chemo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemotherapy

From which comes:

"The efficacy of chemotherapy depends on the type of cancer and the stage. The overall effectiveness ranges from being curative for some cancers, such as some leukemias,[10][11] to being ineffective, such as in some brain tumors,[12] to being needless in others, like most non-melanoma skin cancers.[13]"

Do you see that word "curative" there?

[Roses]

Sriram,

Yes it can, and frequently does.

Why have you just lied about that, and why have you ignored your last error of claiming that an article argued for alternatives to chemo when it dd no such thing? 

Here's Wiki on chemo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemotherapy

From which comes:

"The efficacy of chemotherapy depends on the type of cancer and the stage. The overall effectiveness ranges from being curative for some cancers, such as some leukemias,[10][11] to being ineffective, such as in some brain tumors,[12] to being needless in others, like most non-melanoma skin cancers.[13]"

Do you see that word "curative" there?

Our youngest daughter's father-in-law, had chemo for cancer two years ago and is now totally clear of it.

[Sriram]

Sriram,

Yes it can, and frequently does.

Why have you just lied about that, and why have you ignored your last error of claiming that an article argued for alternatives to chemo when it did no such thing? 

Here's Wiki on chemo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemotherapy

From which comes:

"The efficacy of chemotherapy depends on the type of cancer and the stage. The overall effectiveness ranges from being curative for some cancers, such as some leukemias,[10][11] to being ineffective, such as in some brain tumors,[12] to being needless in others, like most non-melanoma skin cancers.[13]"

Do you see that word "curative" there?

Yeah...yeah ...I agree chemo is curative in some cases....but not in all.

Sometimes  cancers even undergo remission without any treatment.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

Yeah...yeah ...I agree chemo is curative in some cases....but not in all.

Yes, but that's not what you said. What you said was:

"Well.....chemo doesn't CURE the cancer either..."

You also linked to an article from the Mayo clinic that you claimed suggested "alternatives" to chemo, when it said no such thing.

Can you see now how people who took seriously the things you say could, if they acted on them, be done harm?

Sometimes  cancers even undergo remission without any treatment.

Yes, some do - but there's no evidence that the various woo practices some patients try have anything to do with it. 

[Sriram]

Typically, you are digressing into subjects that have nothing to do with reincarnation. Just your microscopic way of searching for some chink that will win you the argument.

Point is that  reincarnation has figured to various degrees in almost all religions. It is a valid hypothesis and is increasingly being investigated and studied by scientists. It is also being increasingly accepted by people around the world as a part of their philosophy of life. Nothing is going to stop that. Ten years from now you will be hearing more about reincarnation, not less.

Now, could we end this dead end argument?  You can have the last word...no problem.

Cheers.

Sriram

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

Typically, you are digressing into subjects that have nothing to do with reincarnation. Just your microscopic way of searching for some chink that will win you the argument.

No, I'm just correcting the mistakes and misrepresentations you make and explaining why making them does potential harm. Why not be honest and withdraw the mistakes rather than throw pejorative language at the person who corrected them?   

Point is that  reincarnation has figured to various degrees in almost all religions.

And in the pagan winter/spring myths that preceded and informed them. So?

It is a valid hypothesis...

No it isn't. A hypothesis is a potential explanation made on the basis of limited evidence awaiting further investigation. There's no evidence at all for reincarnation, so what you have is an idea or a speculation - akin to the idea or speculation that leprechauns leaves pots of gold at the ends of rainbows – but nothing more.

... and is increasingly being investigated and studied by scientists.

Which scientists are doing that? So far as I'm aware the idea has no scientific credence whatever, so science in general is as indifferent to it as it is to the claims of leprechaunologists.

It is also being increasingly accepted by people around the world as a part of their philosophy of life. Nothing is going to stop that. Ten years from now you will be hearing more about reincarnation, not less.

That's just your unqualified assertion, but even if it's true that'd be further evidence of a collective descent into superstitionism rather than a scientific advance - at least unless any evidence for reincarnation ever turned up. 

Now, could we end this dead end argument?  You can have the last word...no problem.

As your "arguments' have collapsed and your claims have been falsified, consider it ended. 

[Walter]

well that was fun . I love to watch a good trouncing . Well played blue.

[ekim]

And there are possible alternatives to chemo....

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/cancer/in-depth/cancer-treatment/art-20047246

I don't think they are claiming treatment as an alternative to chemotherapy.  This is a U.S.A. site, in the U.K. such therapies are usually referred to as complementary therapies used in conjunction with allopathic medicine rather than as an alternative.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't think they are claiming treatment as an alternative to chemotherapy.  This is a U.S.A. site, in the U.K. such therapies are usually referred to as complementary therapies used in conjunction with allopathic medicine rather than as an alternative.

except they are making claims., and allopathic is a synonym for not snake oil.

[bluehillside Retd.]

NS,

except they are making claims., and allopathic is a synonym for not snake oil.

No - see Reply 101. Sriram said the site proposed non-chemo treatments for cancer as alternatives to chemo. It does no such thing. What it actually says is that patients may want to integrate other treatments with chemo, and then only to alleviate conditions other than cancer - eg anxiety. It's very clear about this. 

[ekim]

except they are making claims., and allopathic is a synonym for not snake oil.

I must admit that I only read as far as this .....Alternative cancer treatments can't cure your cancer, but they may provide some relief from signs and symptoms.

[bluehillside Retd.]

ekim,

I must admit that I only read as far as this .....Alternative cancer treatments can't cure your cancer, but they may provide some relief from signs and symptoms.

That's all the site says - you were correct and Sriram was wrong. See Reply 101.

[ekim]

ekim,

That's all the site says - you were correct and Sriram was wrong. See Reply 101.

Oh, OK.  I jumped into this topic later on without looking far enough back.

[Owlswing]

As a matter of interest, why do you apply this faith based reasoning for your religion, when you would not use it in any other area?

Is is that you like the religion and just want to adopt it?

Because in almost all other areas of my life there is solid evidence of the things that I believe in. Oh, they are not all cut and dried and easy to live with. Justice, politics, relationships.

Religious belief starts, as I see it, from a concept that is impossible to prove, no matter how hard some might try to do so, the existance of the deity applicable to their particular choice of religion.

I believe that my deities exist, I believe the Summerlands exist, I believe in the Cycle of Life - birth, life, death and re-birth.

I do not ask anyone to change their religious, agnostic or atheist views because I don't follow them and I do not, and neither does any Pagan or Witch that I know personally, proselytise. You want to know about my beliefs, for whatever reason, ask me 'cos I'm not chasing after you to explain them or try to force them upon you.

Not rational? Probably not, but, hey, it works for me.

[BeRational]

Because in almost all other areas of my life there is solid evidence of the things that I believe in. Oh, they are not all cut and dried and easy to live with. Justice, politics, relationships.

Religious belief starts, as I see it, from a concept that is impossible to prove, no matter how hard some might try to do so, the existance of the deity applicable to their particular choice of religion.

I believe that my deities exist, I believe the Summerlands exist, I believe in the Cycle of Life - birth, life, death and re-birth.

I do not ask anyone to change their religious, agnostic or atheist views because I don't follow them and I do not, and neither does any Pagan or Witch that I know personally, proselytise. You want to know about my beliefs, for whatever reason, ask me 'cos I'm not chasing after you to explain them or try to force them upon you.

Not rational? Probably not, but, hey, it works for me.

As long as it works for you and you know your beliefs are not rational, so you know what you are doing.

Your approach would not work for me but hey ho

[SusanDoris]

well that was fun . I love to watch a good trouncing . Well played blue.

Ditto. In fact, I only ever see what Sriram says via quotes in responses, as I can't bear to spend any time reading them - I'd rather sit and do nothing!

[Sriram]

Ditto. In fact, I only ever see what Sriram says via quotes in responses, as I can't bear to spend any time reading them - I'd rather sit and do nothing!

Well...coming from some of you....you have no idea what a huge compliment that is!!!  Thanks!