End of life, or live forever!

[bluehillside Retd.]

Walter,

aww c'mon you just made that up . Brilliant !

Nope. Rumour was it did the rounds at BBC staff Christmas parties for years afterwards!

[ekim]

ekim,

(1) But not if you want to attach the word “spiritual” to whatever techniques you want to use to improve wellbeing. As I understand it, those who use that word often think it to refer to something non-natural, working outside of the laws of physics and chemistry etc. In other words, for them “spiritual” is in the same category as “god”, “soul” etc. 

(2) By the same token, perhaps the proper response to claims of spirituality is ig-spirituality – ie, “when you say you’re spiritual I have no idea what you mean but that, and nor it seems have you”.

(1)Yes, I was answering Susan's question - 'How do you think atheists fit in here?' and I wouldn't expect atheists to attach the words 'spiritual, gods and souls' to any techniques to improve their well being.  A person who considers herself to be 'spiritual' might use appropriate symbolic language to fit in with whatever 'religious' structure she is attached to.
(2) I agree.  The expressions used should be defined as well as possible by the person using them.  One of the problems that Sriram is coming up against is that he is trying to use Abrahamic religious terminology to fit with Indian philosophical ideas and I don't think it works.  It would be better to use the language of e.g. Samkhya metaphysics, much of which has a resemblance to western psychology and has a better chance of being explained.  It might save the confusion between physics and metaphysics.  Sriram seems to be the last 'spiritual' survival.  If he is hounded off the board you'll be left with crossword puzzles, Donald Trump, Brexit and football it seems.

[Walter]

Walter,

Nope. Rumour was it did the rounds at BBC staff Christmas parties for years afterwards!

It doesn't matter though , it's a brilliant gag anyway . I saw it mentioned on one of those 'Looking Back ' programs about how the BBC has presented cooking shows through time . I almost spat my whisky out laughing  (ALMOST)

[Walter]

(1)Yes, I was answering Susan's question - 'How do you think atheists fit in here?' and I wouldn't expect atheists to attach the words 'spiritual, gods and souls' to any techniques to improve their well being.  A person who considers herself to be 'spiritual' might use appropriate symbolic language to fit in with whatever 'religious' structure she is attached to.
(2) I agree.  The expressions used should be defined as well as possible by the person using them.  One of the problems that Sriram is coming up against is that he is trying to use Abrahamic religious terminology to fit with Indian philosophical ideas and I don't think it works.  It would be better to use the language of e.g. Samkhya metaphysics, much of which has a resemblance to western psychology and has a better chance of being explained.  It might save the confusion between physics and metaphysics.  Sriram seems to be the last 'spiritual' survival.  If he is hounded off the board you'll be left with crossword puzzles, Donald Trump, Brexit and football it seems.

Hey!   we like a good hounding on 'ere . It's good for the soul .

[ekim]

Hey!   we like a good hounding on 'ere . It's good for the soul .

That's what Donald Trump is for.  He goes down bigly in Barnsley.

[Walter]

That's what Donald Trump is for.  He goes down bigly in Barnsley.

I think Bigly likes it though 

[Walter]

has this thread come off the rails yet or can it stand a bit more ? 

[ekim]

I think Bigly likes it though 

Walter, King of the Double Entendres.  I can see I'll have to carefully edit what I put in my posts.

[bluehillside Retd.]

ekim,

Walter, King of the Double Entendres.  I can see I'll have to carefully edit what I put in my posts.

Doncha just wish Walter's surname was "Wallcarpet" too?

Even missing capital letters can matter a lot by the way. "My uncle Jack's off his horse" is fine; "my uncle jacks off his horse" is, well, less so... 

[Sriram]

(1)Yes, I was answering Susan's question - 'How do you think atheists fit in here?' and I wouldn't expect atheists to attach the words 'spiritual, gods and souls' to any techniques to improve their well being.  A person who considers herself to be 'spiritual' might use appropriate symbolic language to fit in with whatever 'religious' structure she is attached to.
(2) I agree.  The expressions used should be defined as well as possible by the person using them.  One of the problems that Sriram is coming up against is that he is trying to use Abrahamic religious terminology to fit with Indian philosophical ideas and I don't think it works.  It would be better to use the language of e.g. Samkhya metaphysics, much of which has a resemblance to western psychology and has a better chance of being explained.  It might save the confusion between physics and metaphysics.  Sriram seems to be the last 'spiritual' survival.  If he is hounded off the board you'll be left with crossword puzzles, Donald Trump, Brexit and football it seems.

Well...I think any secular principle or philosophy that is meant to explain the life and patterns of all humans, should be amenable to any language or terminology.  Only religious ideas that have a strong cultural base might be difficult to explain.

Anyway...as you say...maybe this board would be more comfortable discussing crossword puzzles, Brexit, Trump etc.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

Well...I think any secular principle or philosophy that is meant to explain the life and patterns of all humans, should be amenable to any language or terminology.  Only religious ideas that have a strong cultural base might be difficult to explain.

Of course philosophy can’t be “amenable to any language or terminology”! Philosophy requires certainty of meaning, clarity of thought, robust reasoning etc. That’s why your claims to be “doing philosophy” fall at the first hurdle – woolly platitudes cannot philosophy be, no matter how much you would prefer it otherwise.
   

Anyway...as you say...maybe this board would be more comfortable discussing crossword puzzles, Brexit, Trump etc.

Relax – the children were just messing around while we waited for you to come back with some straight answers. Seems we’re gonna have to wait a bit longer though…

[Walter]

Well...I think any secular principle or philosophy that is meant to explain the life and patterns of all humans, should be amenable to any language or terminology.  Only religious ideas that have a strong cultural base might be difficult to explain.

Anyway...as you say...maybe this board would be more comfortable discussing crossword puzzles, Brexit, Trump etc.

[Walter]

what happened there , my post didn't appear ?

[SusanDoris]

(1)Yes, I was answering Susan's question - 'How do you think atheists fit in here?' and I wouldn't expect atheists to attach the words 'spiritual, gods and souls' to any techniques to improve their well being

I don't think I saw that in previous posts, but never mind, I shall have to respond to that!
I shall use the word spiritual about myself whenever it applies, since that is part of my plan to fight the appropriation of the word by the religious every inch of the way.

A person who considers herself to be 'spiritual' might use appropriate symbolic language to fit in with whatever 'religious' structure she is attached to.

I don't just 'consider' myself to be a spiritualperson, I am absolutely colnfident that I am, since, unless you can convince otherwise, the word spiritual applies to the general, aesthetic aspects of life, not exclusively to the faith belief aspect.

[ekim]

I don't think I saw that in previous posts, but never mind, I shall have to respond to that!
I shall use the word spiritual about myself whenever it applies, since that is part of my plan to fight the appropriation of the word by the religious every inch of the way.I don't just 'consider' myself to be a spiritualperson, I am absolutely colnfident that I am, since, unless you can convince otherwise, the word spiritual applies to the general, aesthetic aspects of life, not exclusively to the faith belief aspect.

In a discussion group, I think it is important to be as clear as possible about certain words which have their origins in religions to avoid confusion rather than preserve exclusivity.  A person who goes to a Spiritualist Church as a medium and contacts the dead would see it differently to you and me as would a person only interested in soul music.  Words do change meaning over time but if we are as clear as possible about what we mean then it will save us saying things like 'my god, what the devil do you mean by that'.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Hi Susan,

I don't think I saw that in previous posts, but never mind, I shall have to respond to that!

I shall use the word spiritual about myself whenever it applies, since that is part of my plan to fight the appropriation of the word by the religious every inch of the way.

I don't just 'consider' myself to be a spiritualperson, I am absolutely colnfident that I am, since, unless you can convince otherwise, the word spiritual applies to the general, aesthetic aspects of life, not exclusively to the faith belief aspect.

Reminds me a bit of the old story about the uneducated chap who comes into money and decides to learn formal English. He visits a tutor, who says “let’s begin with learning prose”. “Prose” says our man, “what’s that?” “Well” says the tutor, “prose is what you’re speaking now”.  “Wow” says our chap, “you mean to say I’ve been here for only five minutes and already I’ve learnt prose? You Sir are a genius!”

So it turns out that just by trying to behave well and do the right thing I’ve been “spiritual” all along eh? Well, just fancy that!

[Udayana]

...

So it turns out that just by trying to behave well and do the right thing I’ve been “spiritual” all along eh? Well, just fancy that!

Well, along the lines of, I think, your earlier comments, "considerate" or "polite" and "ethical" would cover those fine. If "spiritual" has a meaning it needs to be defined more clearly than that.

[Nearly Sane]

It's a sort of catch all term. I've never understood it, and it seems to me that SD's approach is simply using it as a synonym for aesthetic, which doesn't seem to match other uses here.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Udayana,

Well, along the lines of, I think, your earlier comments, "considerate" or "polite" and "ethical" would cover those fine. If "spiritual" has a meaning it needs to be defined more clearly than that.

Not by me though - I was just going by ekim's use of "wellbeing" and similar - apparently the term is so loose-woven you can use it to mean pretty much anything you think to be positive. Me, I'm having a big ol' badge made saying "I'm spiritual I am!", and I'll wear it with pride too!

...or perhaps not.

Which reminds me of many years ago on one of my children's fourth birthdays when she was given a card with a big badge on it saying "I am 4!". On the back of it though was a sticker saying, "Not suitable for children under six". Happy days eh? 

 

[SusanDoris]

Hi Susan,

Reminds me a bit of the old story about the uneducated chap who comes into money and decides to learn formal English. He visits a tutor, who says “let’s begin with learning prose”. “Prose” says our man, “what’s that?” “Well” says the tutor, “prose is what you’re speaking now”.  “Wow” says our chap, “you mean to say I’ve been here for only five minutes and already I’ve learnt prose? You Sir are a genius!”

So it turns out that just by trying to behave well and do the right thing I’ve been “spiritual” all along eh? Well, just fancy that!

Ten minutes ago I was on the GH forum, countering some more use of the word 'spirituality' and saw the name Eckhart Toll. took a few minutes only to look him up on Wikipedia, shake head sadly, and sigh!

[Walter]

Ten minutes ago I was on the GH forum, countering some more use of the word 'spirituality' and saw the name Eckhart Toll. took a few minutes only to look him up on Wikipedia, shake head sadly, and sigh!

hi SD
It would appear even wakos can get into top universities !
But it's "ordinary people " who validate his tripe  by listening to him and buying his books .
There's nowt so queer as folks !!!

[ekim]

hi SD
It would appear even wakos can get into top universities !
But it's "ordinary people " who validate his tripe  by listening to him and buying his books .
There's nowt so queer as folks !!!

In which case wouldn't it be better to remove the word 'religion' from the title of this site.  This might make it less attractive to the 'ordinary people' so that the 'special people' on here will be spared shaking their head sadly and sighing or shouting out tripe, woo, rubbish, wakos and such like every so often.  This site has probably passed its use by date, as the same discussions have been frequently repeated since the BBC days.

[Walter]

In which case wouldn't it be better to remove the word 'religion' from the title of this site.  This might make it less attractive to the 'ordinary people' so that the 'special people' on here will be spared shaking their head sadly and sighing or shouting out tripe, woo, rubbish, wakos and such like every so often.  This site has probably passed its use by date, as the same discussions have been frequently repeated since the BBC days.

…..and where's the fun in that?

[ekim]

…..and where's the fun in that?

Surely you can find more fun in crossword puzzles, football, the ancient Egyptian Dead.  What's wrong with you man!!

[Walter]

Surely you can find more fun in crossword puzzles, football, the ancient Egyptian Dead.  What's wrong with you man!!

you're not the first to ask that question of me , ekim .

My reply is ;

ask not what is wrong with me but what is wrong with oneself !