MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist

[Nearly Sane]

Ffrom what I have heard, not seen of course, on Radio 4, I think I'm on the MP's side. The woman was an intruder, who had got past security presumably, and, whether  or not she was dressed to make it look as if she was not an intruder, she should not have been there.

And he then slammed a woman much smaller than him against a pillar and chokeholdered her. If you think that's acceptable you support violence against peaceful protesters.

[Christine]

I saw the same as ProfessorDavey and Nearly Sane.  Sometimes it's useful to imagine yourself or someone you care about in a scenario you're judging, to test your unconscious bias.  I don't think that's trying to evoke an emotional response.  If you'd have been happy seeing someone you care about being treated like that, at least you're consistent.

[ProfessorDavey]

Ffrom what I have heard, not seen of course, on Radio 4, I think I'm on the MP's side. The woman was an intruder, who had got past security presumably, and, whether  or not she was dressed to make it look as if she was not an intruder, she should not have been there.

You need to watch the video before commenting - that gives you all the context you need.

Sure she was a protester and dressed exactly as such with a sash - she was non violent, she wasn't 'rushing' at anyone. Field was unnecessarily aggressive and violent toward her. Given the tight space between the table and the wall all he needed to do was stand up, arms outstretched (as security would have done) and chaperoned her back the way she'd come. No need to touch her at all.

I heard the guy on radio 4 and was appalled at the suggestion that he needed to grab her by the throat because she wasn't wearing a collar - did he think she was a dog or something.

[Nearly Sane]

you are attempting to invoke an emotional response from me using my daughter as an instrument and that is wrong and cheep .

You may or may not remember a couple of years ago when I posted that my daughter and her colleges were terrified by an intruder at her workplace which resulted in an evacuation of the building .
No one at the time knew they were not in danger however the reaction was  the same.

Perhaps if someone had jumped up and restrained the intruder before he could do any damage then she and her colleagues may not have been so distressed

No, I exactly do recall that. But you are supporting the abuser here. Which makes you a hypocrite and someone who supports violence against women. It's using emotion but also logical consistency.

[Nearly Sane]

You need to watch the video before commenting - that gives you all the context you need.

Sure she was a protester and dressed exactly as such with a sash - she was non violent, she wasn't 'rushing' at anyone. Field was unnecessarily aggressive toward her. Given the tight space between the table and the wall all he needed to do was stand up, arms outstretched (as security would have done) and chaperoned her back the way she'd come.

Err given SD is mostly unsighted mebbes think about your phrasing here?

[ProfessorDavey]

Err given SD is mostly unsighted mebbes think about your phrasing here?

Indeed - my apologies - but the point remains that you really do need to see what happened to be able to judge. The guy on radio 4 described her as 'rushing' forward (as if to make an attack) - she does no such thing.

[Nearly Sane]

Indeed - my apologies - but the point remains that you really do need to see what happened to be able to judge. The guy on radio 4 described her as 'rushing' forward (as if to make an attack) - she does no such thing.

Indeed, slightly edging might be a better description.

[jeremyp]

With excessive force

A little bit maybe. But she was a protestor who wasn't supposed to be there and she knew it. It seems she put herself in harm's way.

[jeremyp]

He slams a small women against a pillar and then chokeholds her and pushes her out. There is no evidence or indication of a threat. It's assault. And I see he's been dropped as a govt minister - good. I hope he is charged

He pushes her against a pillar. There was no choke hold. He has his hand firmly on her shoulder as he pushes her out of the room.

[Walter]

I'm not ignoring the context that the guests at the event are likely to have been drinking throughout the pre-dinner drinks reception and through three courses prior to the speech.

Look at Field's body language and face - he isn't a man in control of his actions, he is furious and angry and very likely drunk.

you really do amuse me prof , you sound like a Sally Army lady who comes collecting in the pub on a Friday night

[Walter]

No, I exactly do recall that. But you are supporting the abuser here. Which makes you a hypocrite and someone who supports violence against women. It's using emotion but also logical consistency.

Hold on; are you saying there are NO circumstances where violence against women is acceptable ?

(not wishing to derail this thread but clarification is needed)

[Enki]

No, it was his claim which I used in the OP. Your comment read as if you thought his actions were justified. Hence my reply.

I made a comment on what he thought(about her being armed). At no point did I seek to justify his reactions. I talked only about his feelings and that they might well have been my feelings too. If you choose to interpret that as me having some sort of justification for his actions, I think you are jumping to conclusions that aren't warranted and are certainly not present in any words that I have conveyed. I actually think that his actions were over the top, ill thought out(if thought out at all), and could amount to assault. I do not condone them at all. Explanations do not necessarily lead to justification for a person's actions.

[jeremyp]

Indeed, slightly edging might be a better description.

She was walking quickly towards the top table.

[ProfessorDavey]

She was walking quickly towards the top table.

True but not directly toward the top table - walking around the edge of the room.

All that was needed was for Field (or anyone else) to stand up, which would have effectively blocked any further progress as the space was so tight. The aggression and violence was completely unnecessary and also unprovoked.

[Walter]

She was walking quickly towards the top table.

pushing past a government minister then reaches out , picks up a knife from the table and thrusts it into his neck . (imagine it)

It didn't happen but could have . That is why I support Mark Fields actions

[ProfessorDavey]

you really do amuse me prof , you sound like a Sally Army lady who comes collecting in the pub on a Friday night

Bizarre comment - as a retort you sound like a guy in the pub who thinks it's OK to assault someone who poses no threat to you because you've got a bit angry and had one too many.

I simply think that we should resolve issues without aggression and violence wherever possible. And in this case the situation could have (and should have) been resolved without any resort to violence. No trained security person would have done what Field did - a trained person would have simply blocked her progress and walked forward with arms outstretched to usher her back the way she came. In fact you see people later in the clip doing exactly that to the other protesters.

[Nearly Sane]

pushing past a government minister then reaches out , picks up a knife from the table and thrusts it into his neck . (imagine it)

It didn't happen but could have . That is why I support Mark Fields actions
[/quote Because you make stuff up to justify violence against women.

[Nearly Sane]

She was walking quickly towards the top table.

If that is quickly, then I hope your arthritis gets better. Still no excuse for assault.

[Nearly Sane]

pushing past a government minister then reaches out , picks up a knife from the table and thrusts it into his neck . (imagine it)

It didn't happen but could have . That is why I support Mark Fields actions

Because you make stuff up to justify violence against women.

[ProfessorDavey]

pushing past a government minister then reaches out , picks up a knife from the table and thrusts it into his neck . (imagine it)

It didn't happen but could have . That is why I support Mark Fields actions

Pathetic comment. The person sitting next to him could have done exactly the same.

Well actually neither of them could have done as the table had already been cleared of everything except the wine and coffee.

[Nearly Sane]

I made a comment on what he thought(about her being armed). At no point did I seek to justify his reactions. I talked only about his feelings and that they might well have been my feelings too. If you choose to interpret that as me having some sort of justification for his actions, I think you are jumping to conclusions that aren't warranted and are certainly not present in any words that I have conveyed. I actually think that his actions were over the top, ill thought out(if thought out at all), and could amount to assault. I do not condone them at all. Explanations do not necessarily lead to justification for a person's actions.

The actions are assault.

[ProfessorDavey]

pushing past a government minister then reaches out , picks up a knife from the table and thrusts it into his neck . (imagine it)

It didn't happen but could have . That is why I support Mark Fields actions

So you support pre-emptive violence in circumstances where there is no evidence of a threat of violence. Bonkers.

[Walter]

So you support pre-emptive violence in circumstances where there is no evidence of a threat of violence. Bonkers.

It must be lovely living in your fairyland prof

We have both seen the same video but we both have differing views on it . You see unnecessary violence , I see decisive preventative action.

We will never convince each other 

[ProfessorDavey]

It must be lovely living in your fairyland prof

We have both seen the same video but we both have differing views on it . You see unnecessary violence , I see decisive preventative action.

We will never convince each other

Are you unable to understand that the 'preventative action' could have been completed just as successfully without the need for violence. All he needed to do was stand up and block her further progress - job done.

[ProfessorDavey]

I see decisive preventative action.

Preventing what exactly? It would need to be something pretty serious to justify the aggression in order to 'prevent' it.

Apparently she planned to read out a statement and hand out some leaflets.