Author Topic: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist  (Read 10257 times)

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64361
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #75 on: June 21, 2019, 04:16:19 PM »
NS and Prof

look, you both think I'm wrong and I think you two are wrong  Whatever an investigation or the law says subsequently is not really relevant to our discussion

I was responding to what I saw in the few seconds of a video and that's all.
In which a large man slams a small woman against a pillar and then chokeholds her.


Walter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4463
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #77 on: June 21, 2019, 04:20:24 PM »
Violence was carried out on woman. Not seeing the misinterpretation.
I think you are being unforgivably sexist here . You should at least say 'person'

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64361
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #78 on: June 21, 2019, 04:23:05 PM »
I think you are being unforgivably sexist here . You should at least say 'person'
I think you are being unforgivably an idiot here.


Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64361
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #80 on: June 21, 2019, 04:32:11 PM »
I hope you don't expect me to respond to that link
Why would I when you support violence against women?

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #81 on: June 21, 2019, 04:33:24 PM »
Walter - do you think that someone should have assaulted the protester in the Esther McVey launch? If not, why not given that you think that violence was appropriate in the Field case.

Walter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4463
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #82 on: June 21, 2019, 04:44:55 PM »
Why would I when you support violence against women?
what time did you start drinking today , it's obviously affecting your judgment?

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #83 on: June 21, 2019, 04:49:18 PM »
what time did you start drinking today , it's obviously affecting your judgment?
Walter it was me who made the comment about drinking and judgement, not NS - do keep up.

Would you like to answer my question please, namely:

'do you think that someone should have assaulted the protester in the Esther McVey launch? If not, why not given that you think that violence was appropriate in the Field case.'

Walter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4463
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #84 on: June 21, 2019, 04:49:51 PM »
Walter - do you think that someone should have assaulted the protester in the Esther McVey launch? If not, why not given that you think that violence was appropriate in the Field case.
you are comparing apples and oranges Prof.

you should know better !

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #85 on: June 21, 2019, 04:52:34 PM »
you are comparing apples and oranges Prof.

you should know better !
No I'm not - both involved a protester interrupting a political event. Please tell us whether you think violence should have been used to eject the shouty bloke in the McVey launch - and if not why not given that you think violence was justified by Field to eject a protester who was clearly acting in a less aggressive manner than shouty bloke.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 04:58:29 PM by ProfessorDavey »

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64361
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #86 on: June 21, 2019, 04:58:43 PM »
what time did you start drinking today , it's obviously affecting your judgment?
Your lack of argument is obvious

Walter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4463
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #87 on: June 21, 2019, 05:01:59 PM »
No I'm not - both involved a protester interrupting a political event. Please tell us whether you think violence should have been used to eject the shouty bloke in the McVey launch - and if not why not given that you think violence was justified by Field to eject a protester who was clearly acting in a less aggressive manner than shouty bloke.
Prof this is futile so I won't be answering . You already know what I think

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #88 on: June 21, 2019, 05:05:40 PM »
Prof this is futile so I won't be answering . You already know what I think
No I don't - that's why I am asking. It really isn't a hard question is it.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64361
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #89 on: June 21, 2019, 05:06:31 PM »
Prof this is futile so I won't be answering . You already know what I think
Indeed, you think violence against women is fine.

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #90 on: June 21, 2019, 05:13:03 PM »
Indeed, you think violence against women is fine.
You do seem to be fixated with the gender aspect. I think Field's actions would have been just as inappropriate if the protester had been a man of similar physical stature.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64361
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #91 on: June 21, 2019, 05:17:36 PM »
You do seem to be fixated with the gender aspect. I think Field's actions would have been just as inappropriate if the protester had been a man of similar physical stature.
I am fixated on what happened.

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #92 on: June 21, 2019, 05:18:50 PM »
I am fixated on what happened.
Would it have been any less inappropriate had the protester been male in your view?

Walter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4463
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #93 on: June 21, 2019, 05:22:43 PM »
Would it have been any less inappropriate had the protester been male in your view?
his view is what his wife tells him it is  ;)

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #94 on: June 21, 2019, 05:23:38 PM »
his view is what his wife tells him it is  ;)
Eh :o

bluehillside Retd.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19486
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #95 on: June 21, 2019, 05:55:34 PM »
Isn’t the nub of the problem here proportionality? If someone (male or female) is marching towards an intended target with a raised gun in their hand then a certain level of violence (whacking them on the back of the head with a chair for example) to prevent the shooting is justified – it’s the (probable) lesser of two evils. That’s not what happened though – the woman was walking behind a row of chairs and Field saw her, moved his chair back to block her, then assaulted her.   

Might she have had a concealed weapon? Yes she might have done, but so might anyone in the street – that doesn’t give me the right to assault them though because I think they might be carrying heat.

What he should have done if he'd wanted to intervene reasonably was to have blocked her way, then either waited for security to arrive or walked toward her such that she would have been forced to retreat. In other words, acted proportionately.

I see by the way that Field claims to have acted “in the heat of the moment” as if that were some kind of defence or justification. It isn’t. Anyone can act in the heat of the moment, but they must expect to face the consequence when they do.

Short version: the guy’s a thug.     
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64361
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #96 on: June 21, 2019, 06:45:58 PM »
To bhs absolute ditto

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64361
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #97 on: June 21, 2019, 06:47:53 PM »
his view is what his wife tells him it is  ;)
she tells me you're a thug and and an idiot. And she is right.

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #98 on: June 21, 2019, 07:09:31 PM »
Isn’t the nub of the problem here proportionality? If someone (male or female) is marching towards an intended target with a raised gun in their hand then a certain level of violence (whacking them on the back of the head with a chair for example) to prevent the shooting is justified – it’s the (probable) lesser of two evils. That’s not what happened though – the woman was walking behind a row of chairs and Field saw her, moved his chair back to block her, then assaulted her.   

Might she have had a concealed weapon? Yes she might have done, but so might anyone in the street – that doesn’t give me the right to assault them though because I think they might be carrying heat.

What he should have done if he'd wanted to intervene reasonably was to have blocked her way, then either waited for security to arrive or walked toward her such that she would have been forced to retreat. In other words, acted proportionately.

I see by the way that Field claims to have acted “in the heat of the moment” as if that were some kind of defence or justification. It isn’t. Anyone can act in the heat of the moment, but they must expect to face the consequence when they do.

Short version: the guy’s a thug.   
Agree entirely - it wasn't proportionate and wasn't justified.

I'd take issue with the “in the heat of the moment” bit too - sure this all happened fairly quickly but Field watches her all the way as she is walking past the table, he had ample time to simply stand up and block her. But he chose instead to wait until she was next to him to jump up, grab her and ram her against the pillar. That was a decision - a decision likely fuelled by anger and likely fuelled by alcohol - but that in no way excuses his actions.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64361
Re: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
« Reply #99 on: June 21, 2019, 07:13:00 PM »
Agree entirely - it wasn't proportionate and wasn't justified.

I'd take issue with the “in the heat of the moment” bit too - sure this all happened fairly quickly but Field watches her all the way as she is walking past the table, he had ample time to simply stand up and block her. But he chose instead to wait until she was next to him to jump up, grab her and ram her against the pillar. That was a decision - a decision likely fuelled by anger and likely fuelled by alcohol - but that in no way excuses his actions.
What are you taking issue with given bhs already takes issue with it?