Scotland's drug deaths

[Nearly Sane]

Too many politicians on all sides trying to punt the blame for this because of things reserved or not. Needs a grown up approach looking at what might be done and how.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48938509

[Anchorman]

The stats show clear evidence that the drug problems in my own town -more a large village - started when the heart was ripped out of the community with the closing of the mines, and the then London government did nothing to repair the damage. The sickening sight of whole families wrecked and desperate is all too common here. Heroin, meth, crack, you name it, it's all to easy to get hold of. The sight of zombie like folk queing up at the local pharmacy to get their methadone tells me that the latter is not the answer. We need a new initiative. If that means p ower devolved, fair enough.

[Nearly Sane]

If it does need power devolved, fair enough but don't assume it. The casualty numbers are way higher than England, so you could argue that it requires the end of devolution. Now I would suggest that is simplistic but how we deal with this needs people to consider about where we are now rather than playing about the political settlement.

[Anchorman]

If it does need power devolved, fair enough but don't assume it. The casualty numbers are way higher than England, so you could argue that it requires the end of devolution. Now I would suggest that is simplistic but how we deal with this needs people to consider about where we are now rather than playing about the political settlement.

   




Yet the fact that we are hamstrung, and have no control over drug legislation here, has to count for something.
We now have a generational problrm; some families have three generations of addicts. Dealing with individuals is no answer.

[Nearly Sane]

   




Yet the fact that we are hamstrung, and have no control over drug legislation here, has to count for something.
We now have a generational problrm; some families have three generations of addicts. Dealing with individuals is no answer.

Not really. Since drug legislation is the same elsewhere. This is complex and boiling it down to lack of devolved powers makes no sense.

[Anchorman]

Not really. Since drug legislation is the same elsewhere. This is complex and boiling it down to lack of devolved powers makes no sense.

 



Of course I want independence, but  in this instance, I think a specific area might benefit from the ability to have differing solutions, whether that area was Scotland, Southend, Scunthorpe or wherever.
For example, the 'fix room' idea for Glasgow is a good one- but wouldn't work in a rural area (where,per capita, the drug problem is actually worse than Glasgow) Possibly differing policing, sentencing or healthcare methods need to be tailored to fit a given situation. Such pro-active policies would be better coming from the devolved  authorities, who have more responsibility for policing, legal jurisdiction and healthcare than Westminster.

[Christine]

I think all drugs should be legalised and regulated, similarly to alcohol and tobacco.  Most harm from drugs is a direct result of their illegality and control of the market by gangsters.  Scotland may have other contributory economic factors to the current dire situation but it will not be resolved while we persist with the ludicrous "war on drugs".  Do journalists, when supposedly investigating issues, no longer ask who benefits from politicians' actions and policies?  Because the only people who benefit from drugs being illegal are criminals.  The evidence is there but dismissed out of hand and public servants who point out the evidence and the conclusions logically drawn from it risk losing their posts, like David Nutt. 

It seems to me a good proportion of the 1% have had enough of pandering to billions of resource-hungry individuals who are increasingly irrelevant to preserving their privileged existence.  We've passed the point where the haves need the have nots to create their wealth for them and in some respects our very existence is a threat.  What use are we?  Why on earth would any of them be concerned about poor people suffering unnecessarily before dying in Glasgow? 

Excuse the doomy nihilism, I've just been exposed to some profoundly disturbing and depressing Trump tweets. 

I may not be able to contribute to this or any other discussion with regularity as I keep getting the 'server not found' error when trying to log on.  I'm not suggesting that's any loss to you, I just don't want to appear rude 

[jeremyp]

   




Yet the fact that we are hamstrung, and have no control over drug legislation here, has to count for something.
We now have a generational problrm; some families have three generations of addicts. Dealing with individuals is no answer.

|The whole UK has the same drugs legislation but Scotland's rate of drugs deaths is three times higher than the UK as a whole. The problem is not explained by Scotland not being in control of its own legislation, although, in fact, it is in control of some of it.

I suggest you first identify exactly why Scotland's drop problems are so bad before leaping to the conclusion that it is our current drug laws.

[Anchorman]

|The whole UK has the same drugs legislation but Scotland's rate of drugs deaths is three times higher than the UK as a whole. The problem is not explained by Scotland not being in control of its own legislation, although, in fact, it is in control of some of it.

I suggest you first identify exactly why Scotland's drop problems are so bad before leaping to the conclusion that it is our current drug laws.

   






There is no one explanation - I wish there were.
I can only speak for my own area. Whilst there was a low level of drug abuse - mainly solvent, cannabis, amphetamine, etc - before 1986, the closing of the mines - the principle employer - awnd failure to invest in sufficient employment opportunities and infrastructure - led to mass unemployment with little prospect of improvement, yet with money - mainly redundancy compensation- falsly boosting the local economy for about five years.
The first wave of heroin can be traced to around 1989...that generation is,by now, in decline, but their children, to a distressing degree, have also taken drugs...mainly heroin, crack and the rest.
Nany of those on methadone have taken other substances as well.
The suicide rate is truly frightening; this year - 2019 - alone, our minister has had to take over a dozen funerals of suicides in his two parishes which encompass around nine thousand.
Since most of the addicts register as unfit to work, they don't feature on the unemployment stats, which look surprisingly healthy - but stats can be manipulated. This very morning,I went to the town nearest mine, and, at the pharmacy, saw the usual pathetic queue for methadone. The queue doesn't get shorter, though the faces change.

[jeremyp]

   






There is no one explanation - I wish there were.
I can only speak for my own area. Whilst there was a low level of drug abuse - mainly solvent, cannabis, amphetamine, etc - before 1986, the closing of the mines - the principle employer - awnd failure to invest in sufficient employment opportunities and infrastructure - led to mass unemployment with little prospect of improvement, yet with money - mainly redundancy compensation- falsly boosting the local economy for about five years.
The first wave of heroin can be traced to around 1989...that generation is,by now, in decline, but their children, to a distressing degree, have also taken drugs...mainly heroin, crack and the rest.
Nany of those on methadone have taken other substances as well.
The suicide rate is truly frightening; this year - 2019 - alone, our minister has had to take over a dozen funerals of suicides in his two parishes which encompass around nine thousand.
Since most of the addicts register as unfit to work, they don't feature on the unemployment stats, which look surprisingly healthy - but stats can be manipulated. This very morning,I went to the town nearest mine, and, at the pharmacy, saw the usual pathetic queue for methadone. The queue doesn't get shorter, though the faces change.

So do you think that stories like this explain Scotland’s uniquely bad drugs death rate? Or is there something else about Scotland that exacerbates the problem?  I wonder if there are ex mining communities in England and Wales that have similar problems but maybe they are relatively a smaller proportion of the general population or have received more aide and investment

I might ask the head of population statistics at the ONS if he can shed any light on them.

[Nearly Sane]

So do you think that stories like this explain Scotland’s uniquely bad drugs death rate? Or is there something else about Scotland that exacerbates the problem?  I wonder if there are ex mining communities in England and Wales that have similar problems but maybe they are relatively a smaller proportion of the general population or have received more aide and investment

I might ask the head of population statistics at the ONS if he can shed any light on them.

I'm not seeing anything in Anchorman's post where he claims what his post covers explains the drugs death rate in Scotland. It's as already noted a hugely complex issue, and one that isn't in any obvious manner affected by differing policies in the different parts of the UK. It's pretty well a completely reserved issue, though I think the SNP protest too much and could quite possibly take certain steps which might help.

The main thing is that the current set up isn't working, and merely continuing with policies which aren't working in the UK, but obviously failing much more egregiously in Scotland doesn't seem to much of an option. The UK govt's ongoing intransigence to look at radical change seems to be playing to its own support, just as the SNP rhetoric is.

[SteveH]

I think all drugs should be legalised and regulated, similarly to alcohol and tobacco.  Most harm from drugs is a direct result of their illegality and control of the market by gangsters.  Scotland may have other contributory economic factors to the current dire situation but it will not be resolved while we persist with the ludicrous "war on drugs".  Do journalists, when supposedly investigating issues, no longer ask who benefits from politicians' actions and policies?  Because the only people who benefit from drugs being illegal are criminals.  The evidence is there but dismissed out of hand and public servants who point out the evidence and the conclusions logically drawn from it risk losing their posts, like David Nutt. 

It seems to me a good proportion of the 1% have had enough of pandering to billions of resource-hungry individuals who are increasingly irrelevant to preserving their privileged existence.  We've passed the point where the haves need the have nots to create their wealth for them and in some respects our very existence is a threat.  What use are we?  Why on earth would any of them be concerned about poor people suffering unnecessarily before dying in Glasgow? 

Excuse the doomy nihilism, I've just been exposed to some profoundly disturbing and depressing Trump tweets. 

I may not be able to contribute to this or any other discussion with regularity as I keep getting the 'server not found' error when trying to log on.  I'm not suggesting that's any loss to you, I just don't want to appear rude 

Good post.
You're not the only member with intermittent connectivity problems - there's a thread about it somewhere.

[Harrowby Hall]

I may not be able to contribute to this or any other discussion with regularity as I keep getting the 'server not found' error when trying to log on.  I'm not suggesting that's any loss to you, I just don't want to appear rude 

You will see that this has been discussed in the General Subjects area. Try accessing this site using ProxySites.com. I. for one, would not like to miss your contributions.

[Christine]

Thank you Harrowby Hall, that's very kind of you.  Gordon has sent me a link to the proxy site which I'll try to use at home.  I'm at work (lunch time!  I'm not shirking!) which doesn't allow proxy site use and bizarrely I've just been refused access to my personal messages, so I can't thank Gordon directly unfortunately.

Thanks Gordon!

End of thread derail, sorry.

[jeremyp]

I'm not seeing anything in Anchorman's post where he claims what his post covers explains the drugs death rate in Scotland. It's as already noted a hugely complex issue, and one that isn't in any obvious manner affected by differing policies in the different parts of the UK. It's pretty well a completely reserved issue, though I think the SNP protest too much and could quite possibly take certain steps which might help.

The main thing is that the current set up isn't working, and merely continuing with policies which aren't working in the UK, but obviously failing much more egregiously in Scotland doesn't seem to much of an option. The UK govt's ongoing intransigence to look at radical change seems to be playing to its own support, just as the SNP rhetoric is.

But what can you do if you don’t know why your death from drugs problem is so bad? 

[Gordon]

Simon Jenkins suggesting that the SG should be able to vary current (and possibly out-of-date) drug laws to tackle the specific problems here in Scotland. Also noting that seeing drug use as a social rather than legal issue makes sense.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/19/scotland-drugs-problem-westminster-policy

[Nearly Sane]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/dani-garavelli-scotland-s-drugs-tragedy-demands-hard-questions-not-glib-answers-1-4968440

[Gordon]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/dani-garavelli-scotland-s-drugs-tragedy-demands-hard-questions-not-glib-answers-1-4968440

Some good points in that article: it seems to me that an approach that shifts towards decriminalisation and a focus on social support and health interventions is probably the way to proceed. No doubt though, politics will still get in the way. 

[Nearly Sane]

And while the figures in England and Wales are better than Scotland, they are not good reading


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49357077