The prince and the paedophile

[Nearly Sane]

It looks as if the noose is tightening around Prince Andrew's neck. I think he should be prosecuted if the evidence is irrefutable.

I think he should be prosecuted if there is a substantial chance of the case being successful. 'Irrefutable' sets the standard way too high - very few cases would be brought with that.

[Harrowby Hall]

While you are right in spirit  paedophilia covers sexual attraction to prepubescents rather than just sexual activity.

Thank you for the clarification. But "paedophilia" is a term which is greatly misused. I have even seen used to describe a relationship between a twenty year old woman and a man in his late thirties.

[Nearly Sane]

Thank you for the clarification. But "paedophilia" is a term which is greatly misused. I have even seen used to describe a relationship between a twenty year old woman and a man in his late thirties.

As covered in the first few posts of this thread, I think the use here is 'poetic' to echo The Prince and The Pauper  alliteration

[SweetPea]

Ooo - er


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-53268218?__twitter_impression=true

Now Ghislaine Maxwell has been arrested and charged it'll be interesting if we hear in weeks or months that she has 'committed suicide'.

(I'm one of those wary of Epstein's supposed suicide.)

[SteveH]

If Virginia Giuffre was17 at the time then this is not case of "paedophilia". Paedophilia is sexual activity with prepubescent children. The appropriate term for post-pubescent children is "hebephilia".

Since she was over the age of consent, I'dn't've thought it was either, at least as far as the law is concerned.

[SweetPea]

Since she was over the age of consent, I'dn't've thought it was either, at least as far as the law is concerned.

Virginia Giuffre at 17 was under the age of consent which in that particular state was 18.

[Nearly Sane]

Since she was over the age of consent, I'dn't've thought it was either, at least as far as the law is concerned.

The law doesn't care about paedophilia or hebephilia  in its definitions so her being over an age of consent would be irrelevant, though my understanding is that the age of consent where the incident took place was 18. Though now that you have highlighted her age, it means that this wouldn't be hebephilia either but rather ephebephilia.

[SteveH]

Virginia Giuffre at 17 was under the age of consent which in that particular state was 18.

Didn't know that. Thanks for the clarification.

[SweetPea]

It looks as if the noose is tightening around Prince Andrew's neck. I think he should be prosecuted if the evidence is irrefutable.

Doubt very much he'll ever be prosecuted. The Royals are 'Untouchables' - can get away with anything, possibly through their SMOM status.

[Gordon]

Doubt very much he'll ever be prosecuted. The Royals are 'Untouchables' - can get away with anything, possibly through their SMOM status.

SMOM?

[SteveH]

Sovereign Military Order of Malta? St Mary of the Mount? Sergeant Major of Marines? Staff Member of the Month?

[Gordon]

Sovereign Military Order of Malta? St Mary of the Mount? Sergeant Major of Marines? Staff Member of the Month?

I got the same results too when I Googled 'SMOM' - we'll need to wait for Sweetpea to clarify.

[Robbie]

I doubt Andrew knew she was under age in that state. I only know because I saw something on TV about a girl having a sexual relationship at seventeen and her fella getting into trouble. In New York the age of consent is 17. It's all very confusing but Prince Andrew wouldn't be prosecuted for that - if that happened a whole heap of others with much higher positions would have to go down too.

If Prince Andrew was knowingly involved in, say, trafficking (which nobody has suggested ), he wouldn't get away with it. Gone are the days of royals, aristos, archbishops and politicians being untouchable. I'm not that invested in this but will wait and see what happens.

Like SweetPea I wonder if GhislaneM will have an accident. There must be so many scared of what she might say. On the other hand they could spring her &she could go abroad with a new identity. That's me being fanciful, would make good film.

[Roses]

I doubt Andrew knew she was under age in that state. I only know because I saw something on TV about a girl having a sexual relationship at seventeen and her fella getting into trouble. In New York the age of consent is 17. It's all very confusing but Prince Andrew wouldn't be prosecuted for that - if that happened a whole heap of others with much higher positions would have to go down too.

If Prince Andrew was knowingly involved in, say, trafficking (which nobody has suggested ), he wouldn't get away with it. Gone are the days of royals, aristos, archbishops and politicians being untouchable. I'm not that invested in this but will wait and see what happens.

Like SweetPea I wonder if GhislaneM will have an accident. There must be so many scared of what she might say. On the other hand they could spring her &she could go abroad with a new identity. That's me being fanciful, would make good film.

Why do you doubt Andrew knew her age? He has a reputation, before all this blew up and it isn't a good one.

[Nearly Sane]

I doubt Andrew knew she was under age in that state. I only know because I saw something on TV about a girl having a sexual relationship at seventeen and her fella getting into trouble. In New York the age of consent is 17. It's all very confusing but Prince Andrew wouldn't be prosecuted for that - if that happened a whole heap of others with much higher positions would have to go down too.

If Prince Andrew was knowingly involved in, say, trafficking (which nobody has suggested ), he wouldn't get away with it. Gone are the days of royals, aristos, archbishops and politicians being untouchable. I'm not that invested in this but will wait and see what happens.

Like SweetPea I wonder if GhislaneM will have an accident. There must be so many scared of what she might say. On the other hand they could spring her &she could go abroad with a new identity. That's me being fanciful, would make good film.

i wouldn't be being overly precious about ages of consent if I were him then or him now. He's not been cooperative,  talked lying crap in the interview, and didn't ask enough questions - and that's a very charitable interpretation.

[Nearly Sane]

Why do you doubt Andrew knew her age? He has a reputation, before all this blew up and it isn't a good one.

Robbie didn't say he didn't know her age rather that he might not know the age of consent in the state. It is perfectly possible he didn't know either her age or the age of consent - I am not sure that helps him a lot.

You're second statement is just the whole fallacious idea that there is no smoke without fire, and based on gossip rather than evidence.

[flower girl]

There's a lawsuit against Trump for raping a thirteen-year-old girl at one of Epstein's parties years ago. 

Here's the Snopes' article where the lawsuit is displayed. It gives insight as to just how horrible an operation Epstein and GhislaneM ran. 

https://www.snopes.com/news/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit/

[Nearly Sane]

That would appear to be 'was a lawsuit'.

Happy Independence Day, flower girl.

Though I get what you say about fireworks. Here we have Guy Fawkes which last for 2 weeks.

[Aruntraveller]

I doubt Andrew knew she was under age in that state. I only know because I saw something on TV about a girl having a sexual relationship at seventeen and her fella getting into trouble. In New York the age of consent is 17. It's all very confusing but Prince Andrew wouldn't be prosecuted for that - if that happened a whole heap of others with much higher positions would have to go down too.

If Prince Andrew was knowingly involved in, say, trafficking (which nobody has suggested ), he wouldn't get away with it. Gone are the days of royals, aristos, archbishops and politicians being untouchable. I'm not that invested in this but will wait and see what happens.

Like SweetPea I wonder if GhislaneM will have an accident. There must be so many scared of what she might say. On the other hand they could spring her &she could go abroad with a new identity. That's me being fanciful, would make good film.

I didn't think the accusations against the Prince were primarily to do with age. More to do with coercion.

[Robbie]

You could be right Trent. I thought it was to do with him allegedly going with a girl who was underage in the particular state at that time. Haven't heard anything about Andrew coercing or being coerced. GhislaneM and Epstein obviously did coerce young girls into doing things they didn't want; how many of their 'friends' knew about that side of things we'll probably never know because they're so high up and protected.

Let's wait and see what else comes out.

Like other posters here, I don't know what SMOM is.

[SweetPea]

SMOM: Sovereign Military Order of Malta. It's a club for the so-called elites, that we (plebs) ain't in as George Carlin once said of another club (paraphrasing). Members 'look-out' for each other.
This is just a thought on my behalf that it could be a form of protection for the Royals.
Here is Prince Andrew wearing the SMOM pin on his collar:
 
https://aftermathnews.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/prince-andrew-knight-of-malta.jpg

It looks as though Ghislaine Maxwell is going to get off lightly. She is only being charged for trafficking minors across state borders between 1994 and 1997 which nicely excludes the time of Prince Andrew's involvement in the matter during 2001. Corruption amongst the judiciary?

Ghislaine Maxwell's Arrest: Don't Get Your Hopes Up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCDLXvGaQzw

[Owlswing]

It looks as though Ghislaine Maxwell is going to get off lightly. She is only being charged for trafficking minors across state borders between 1994 and 1997 which nicely excludes the time of Prince Andrew's involvement in the matter during 2001. Corruption amongst the judiciary?

Ghislaine Maxwell's Arrest: Don't Get Your Hopes Up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCDLXvGaQzw

This is the American judicial system we are talking about here, so most of the lawyers and judges were probably customers!

[SweetPea]

This is the American judicial system we are talking about here, so most of the lawyers and judges were probably customers!

 

Exactly, Owlswing and that's the problem.

The fact that only three years are being taken into account means many people including Prince Andrew will avoid prosecution. What a disgrace!

[Owlswing]

 

Exactly, Owlswing and that's the problem.

The fact that only three years are being taken into account means many people including Prince Andrew will avoid prosecution. What a disgrace!

Prince Andrew keeps schtum about his involvement until he has no choice and the screws up big-time in a TV interview but is allowed to quietly disappear into the safe curtain put up by the Royals - yes we know all about it but we don't talk about it!

Harry complains about the racist attacks on his wife in the press, gets no support whatsoever - in a moral sense, and is quickly dumped by his family!

And I used to be Royalist - the only reason I'm not a republican is that I dread seeing a Donald Trump clone being in charge over here! Can you imagine President Jeremy or President Boris?

 

[Harrowby Hall]

And I used to be Royalist - the only reason I'm not a republican is that I dread seeing a Donald Trump clone being in charge over here! Can you imagine President Jeremy or President Boris?

Do you really think that the Federal Republic of Great Britain (or similar) would risk having an executive president?

No the presidency (like Germany but unlike France or the USA) would be a figurehead presidency - a reward for someone like David Attenborough.