The confessional should be unsealed!

[Roses]

I am of the opinion that if someone confesses to a priest a serious crime, they should be obliged by law to inform the police. Giving the miscreant a few hail Mary's is not going to absolve them of their wrong doing. For instance, if the RCC had cracked down on paedophile priests and reported them to the police instead of keeping the knowledge of their misdeeds in house, they would not have been free to abuse again as many of them did.

[Nearly Sane]

I am of the opinion that if someone confesses to a priest a serious crime, they should be obliged by law to inform the police. Giving the miscreant a few hail Mary's is not going to absolve them of their wrong doing. For instance, if the RCC had cracked down on paedophile priests and reported them to the police instead of keeping the knowledge of their misdeeds in house, they would not have been free to abuse again as many of them did.

I take it you don't just want to apply to priests?

[Roses]

I take it you don't just want to apply to priests?

I am not sure what you mean?

[Nearly Sane]

I am not sure what you mean?

There isn't a general  duty on anyone to report a crime currently

[Roses]

There isn't a general  duty on anyone to report a crime currently

I think the law should require everyone to report a  serious crime.

[Steve H]

I think the law should require everyone to report a  serious crime.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_(Nineteen_Eighty-Four)

[jeremyp]

There isn't a general  duty on anyone to report a crime currently

I would say there is a moral duty to report serious crimes e.g. murder, rape, child abuse. Of course, Catholic priests believe they have a higher moral duty to keep confessions a secret.

[Roses]

I would say there is a moral duty to report serious crimes e.g. murder, rape, child abuse. Of course, Catholic priests believe they have a higher moral duty to keep confessions a secret.

There is nothing moral about keeping confessions a secret if the result is more people are harmed.

[Nearly Sane]

I would say there is a moral duty to report serious crimes e.g. murder, rape, child abuse. Of course, Catholic priests believe they have a higher moral duty to keep confessions a secret.

I would agree about the moral duty but LR was talking about it being illegal. We have mandatory reporting for FGM for some professions - doctors, teachers but nothing wider. The govt looked at introducing a wider coverage for child abuse but that was dropped some time ago. That was also going to be restricted on the basis of professions. I remember at the time there was some discussion that they might extend it to everyone and that the research indicated that wasn't a good solution.

There is wider mandatory reporting in the, and I think the confessional is specifically excluded.

[Sriram]

The problem could be that once it becomes mandatory for priests to report confessional crimes to the police, confessions will cease altogether.  Why would anyone confess to a priest something that would immediately get him or her arrested? 

[Enki]

The problem could be that once it becomes mandatory for priests to report confessional crimes to the police, confessions will cease altogether.  Why would anyone confess to a priest something that would immediately get him or her arrested?

I think Sriram makes a good point. I would also add that if it was made mandatory then the possibility of a priest being able to influence the perpetrator(perhaps to convince he/she to give themselves up to the authorities) would be greatly diminished.

[Nearly Sane]

The problem could be that once it becomes mandatory for priests to report confessional crimes to the police, confessions will cease altogether.  Why would anyone confess to a priest something that would immediately get him or her arrested?

Most confessions are not about serious crime

[Steve H]

If priests start telling the police about confessions, people will stop confessing to them. You haven't really thought this through, have you?

[Roses]

If priests start telling the police about confessions, people will stop confessing to them. You haven't really thought this through, have you?

What is the point of confessing to a priest, I don't it?

[Outrider]

The problem could be that once it becomes mandatory for priests to report confessional crimes to the police, confessions will cease altogether.  Why would anyone confess to a priest something that would immediately get him or her arrested?

I'm struggling to see the problem, to be honest...

O.

[Robbie]

The problem could be that once it becomes mandatory for priests to report confessional crimes to the police, confessions will cease altogether.  Why would anyone confess to a priest something that would immediately get him or her arrested?

That's a very good point.

If priests start telling the police about confessions, people will stop confessing to them. You haven't really thought this through, have you?

So is that.

[Alan Burns]

What is the point of confessing to a priest, I don't it?

The sacrament of confession is central to the Roman Catholic faith, and derives from the authority delegated by Jesus to the apostles to forgive or retain people's sins.  An essential element in this sacrament is repentance together with a firm purpose of amendment, and the priest will advise how best the confessor may avoid future sin.  In the case of serious criminal acts, the priest will be obliged to offer advice to give themselves up to the police.  Confidentiality is essential in order to encourage the person to give a truthful, honest account of their sins.

[Sriram]

The sacrament of confession is central to the Roman Catholic faith, and derives from the authority delegated by Jesus to the apostles to forgive or retain people's sins.  An essential element in this sacrament is repentance together with a firm purpose of amendment, and the priest will advise how best the confessor may avoid future sin.  In the case of serious criminal acts, the priest will be obliged to offer advice to give themselves up to the police.  Confidentiality is essential in order to encourage the person to give a truthful, honest account of their sins.

Yes...I agree about God being the final judge and all that. I believe in karmic effects.....'what goes around comes around'.

But would you rather that a criminal (say a child rapist) is not imprisoned and punished by humans but is judged only by God eventually?!!  That might have been ok or even necessary during earlier times when organised law enforcement and courts were not available. But in today's situation...?!
 

[Steve H]

Yes...I agree about God being the final judge and all that. I believe in karmic effects.....'what goes around comes around'.

But would you rather that a criminal (say a child rapist) is not imprisoned and punished by humans but is judged only by God eventually?!!  That might have been ok or even necessary during earlier times when organised law enforcement and courts were not available. But in today's situation...?!
 

But, as you pointed out earlier, as did I, if priests start telling the police about serious crimes confessed to, people will stop confessing them!

[Sriram]

But, as you pointed out earlier, as did I, if priests start telling the police about serious crimes confessed to, people will stop confessing them!

Yes...I agree. My above point is with regard to the idea of confessing to a priest as an alternative to being punished by the Law.  In today's world most of us would not like the idea of a criminal going unpunished even if he confesses to a priest and genuinely repents.  In earlier times it was different.

[Roses]

But, as you pointed out earlier, as did I, if priests start telling the police about serious crimes confessed to, people will stop confessing them!

Good it is all mumbo jumbo anyway. People should be confessing to the police, not priests, and try to make amends for their crimes.

[Outrider]

Yes...I agree about God being the final judge and all that. I believe in karmic effects.....'what goes around comes around'.

You believe in 'what goes around comes around' in a world where childhood leukaemia stands alongside Boris Johnson's ascent to Prime Minister and Donald Trump's presidency?  Do you not look at the world around you at all?

O.

[Sriram]

You believe in 'what goes around comes around' in a world where childhood leukaemia stands alongside Boris Johnson's ascent to Prime Minister and Donald Trump's presidency?  Do you not look at the world around you at all?

O.

In fact, it is precisely because of the inequalities that we observe in this world that we believe in karmic influences (over several life times). They equalize everything over time such that eventually everyone reaches the same goal.  The inequalities of today are only temporary and get ironed out eventually.

The 'randomness' that science attributes to everything is so...unscientific....!   

[Outrider]

In fact, it is precisely because of the inequalities that we observe in this world that we believe in karmic influences (over several life times). They equalize everything over time such that eventually everyone reaches the same goal.  The inequalities of today are only temporary and get ironed out eventually.

I see, so even the claim of 'what goes around comes around' is subject to 'cosmic woo' enough to make it a) unmeasurable, b) unfalsifiable and, therefore, c)unimportant.

The 'randomness' that science attributes to everything is so...unscientific....!   

I don't think science alleges 'random' lightly - the only thing, currently, that I'm aware science considers to be fundamentally random is quantum fluctuation, and even that is only random within a tightly constrained set of possible limits.  There are a number of complex interactions which science can explain the theory of the components of, but which are large enough in scope that we don't have the computational capacity or sufficient information to practically determine, and so treat as random (for instance, elements of meterology), but there's very little out there that's actually random.  And yet, ironically, given that everything's underpinned by quantum fluctuations, everything's potentially susceptible to randomness - you could probably find a spiritual aphorism to make that sound deep and add absolutely no practical value if you tried.

O.

[Sriram]

'Unmeasurable'  is not 'unimportant'.. That is the basic mistake people enamored with scientism make.