Bad news on vaccination

[Nearly Sane]

This needs attention and action from govt.




https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49831581

[Roses]

I have just heard that on the news, it is indeed shocking, especially as cases of measles are rising. As I have said before, I think vaccinations should be compulsory, as the smallpox one was in my home island when I was a child. Obviously if there is a good medical reason why a particular child cannot receive a vaccination then the statutory obligation to have one would be waived in their case.

[Udayana]

I have just heard that on the news, it is indeed shocking, especially as cases of measles are rising. As I have said before, I think vaccinations should be compulsory, as the smallpox one was in my home island when I was a child. Obviously if there is a good medical reason why a particular child cannot receive a vaccination then the statutory obligation to have one would be waived in their case.

Wouldn't it be beter to understand and deal with the causes of the problem rather than immediately turn to the most drastic option?

[Roses]

Wouldn't it be beter to understand and deal with the causes of the problem rather than immediately turn to the most drastic option?

Drastic action needs to be taken as people are still being told lies about the MMR vaccine causing autism, which is untrue. My eldest grandson was the only one of my five grandchildren not to have the vaccine as a young child, and the only one who is autistic. He had it when he was older, after the diagnosis.

[Udayana]

Drastic action needs to be taken as people are still being told lies about the MMR vaccine causing autism, which is untrue. My eldest grandson was the only one of my five grandchildren not to have the vaccine as a young child, and the only one who is autistic. He had it when he was older, after the diagnosis.

Are those lies not being told in Scotland and NI? Or maybe the English and Welsh are more gullible?

[Walter]

BBC2 tonight at 9pm there could be some answers?

[Robbie]

Oh you beat me to it Walter.  I've just been reading about the programme & will watch it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0008rvk

There's a Horizon programme about autism on London Live, just started.

[jeremyp]

Are those lies not being told in Scotland and NI? Or maybe the English and Welsh are more gullible?

I don't see why we can't do both. We need to find out why vaccine uptake is better in Scotland and Northern Ireland (and North East England) and we also need to protect ourselves from the antivaxxers and "ourselves" includes the antivaxxers' own children.

[Roses]

I don't see why we can't do both. We need to find out why vaccine uptake is better in Scotland and Northern Ireland (and North East England) and we also need to protect ourselves from the antivaxxers and "ourselves" includes the antivaxxers' own children.

I agree.

[Walter]

After watching that Bbc2 programme last night on the subject it would seem to me the problem lies in the general publics lack of understanding of science
In a world dominated by STEM I find it odd that the majority of people have no understanding of it and the implications of that are immense and dangerous .
I fear in the end the machine will be destroyed by the Luddites

[SteveH]

Wouldn't it be beter to understand and deal with the causes of the problem rather than immediately turn to the most drastic option?

There isn't time, and the fuckwits who oppose vaccination are immune (unfortunate choice of word) to reason and education.

[Robbie]

After watching that Bbc2 programme last night on the subject it would seem to me the problem lies in the general publics lack of understanding of science
In a world dominated by STEM I find it odd that the majority of people have no understanding of it and the implications of that are immense and dangerous .
I fear in the end the machine will be destroyed by the Luddites

I was shocked that anti-vax so called experts had almost a cult following.

[Udayana]

It was a very interesting programme.

Seemed to confirm (to me at least) that the solution was not straight forward and efforts to suppress anti-vaxxers directly may only lead to their opinions and beliefs becoming more embedded - as they are already due to loss of trust in government, business and scientific/medical authority.

[Nearly Sane]

It was a very interesting programme.

Seemed to confirm (to me at least) that the solution was not straight forward and efforts to suppress anti-vaxxers directly may only lead to their opinions and beliefs becoming more embedded - as they are already due to loss of trust in government, business and scientific/medical authority.

Which seems to argue for a magical solution or one so beyond us currently to be meaningless. A choice of doing nothing, and watching children suffer and die. I am conscious of the need to avoid 'We have to do something. This is somethimg . We have to do this.' But we also need to avoid not doing anything until there is a perfect solution.

[jeremyp]

It was a very interesting programme.

Seemed to confirm (to me at least) that the solution was not straight forward and efforts to suppress anti-vaxxers directly may only lead to their opinions and beliefs becoming more embedded - as they are already due to loss of trust in government, business and scientific/medical authority.

If you can’t change the minds of the antivaxxers, you have to take the decision out of their hands and make it compulsory to have your children vaccinated. It’s everybody’s health that’s being put at risk by these numbskulls.

[Roses]

If you can’t change the minds of the antivaxxers, you have to take the decision out of their hands and make it compulsory to have your children vaccinated. It’s everybody’s health that’s being put at risk by these numbskulls.

Sadly I can't see the vaccinations being made compulsory.

[Udayana]

If you can’t change the minds of the antivaxxers, you have to take the decision out of their hands and make it compulsory to have your children vaccinated. It’s everybody’s health that’s being put at risk by these numbskulls.

It is not everyone's health at risk. It is the health of their own children and that of children who are unable to be vaccinated.

The urgency, imo, is not sufficient to override the principle that medical intervention requires consent. The problem could probably be minimised by checking which children have not been vaccinated and ensuring that the issues are talked through with their parents - oh dear this costs money! Maybe the parents should be charged for weekly checks to certify that their children had not become infectious?

At the same time, much could be done to stop the internet and social media providers distributing false and misleading information and propaganda, and blocking malicious systems designed to undermine our society. But, oh dear, FB might lose advertising revenue when people stop clicking on inflammatory crap!

[Roses]

It is not everyone's health at risk. It is the health of their own children and that of children who are unable to be vaccinated.

The urgency, imo, is not sufficient to override the principle that medical intervention requires consent. The problem could probably be minimised by checking which children have not been vaccinated and ensuring that the issues are talked through with their parents - oh dear this costs money! Maybe the parents should be charged for weekly checks to certify that their children had not become infectious?

At the same time, much could be done to stop the internet and social media providers distributing false and misleading information and propaganda, and blocking malicious systems designed to undermine our society. But, oh dear, FB might lose advertising revenue when people stop clicking on inflammatory crap!

Children's MMR vaccines are free on the NHS.

[jeremyp]

It is not everyone's health at risk. It is the health of their own children and that of children who are unable to be vaccinated.

And anybody who has not had the vaccine including people who are allergic and everybody who has had the vaccine but for whom it wasn't effective.

The urgency, imo, is not sufficient to override the principle that medical intervention requires consent. The problem could probably be minimised by checking which children have not been vaccinated and ensuring that the issues are talked through with their parents - oh dear this costs money! Maybe the parents should be charged for weekly checks to certify that their children had not become infectious?

Measles is highly infectious. By the time a week has gone by, it might be too late. Besides parents who refuse to have their children vaccinated are putting them at risk. They are clearly not capable of making informed decisions on behalf of their children.

At the same time, much could be done to stop the internet and social media providers distributing false and misleading information and propaganda, and blocking malicious systems designed to undermine our society. But, oh dear, FB might lose advertising revenue when people stop clicking on inflammatory crap!

You'd need a globally coordinated effort to do that. It ain't gonna happen.

[Udayana]

And anybody who has not had the vaccine including people who are allergic and everybody who has had the vaccine but for whom it wasn't effective.
Measles is highly infectious. By the time a week has gone by, it might be too late. Besides parents who refuse to have their children vaccinated are putting them at risk. They are clearly not capable of making informed decisions on behalf of their children.

OK. But far more effort needs to be spent on getting them to agree before forcing children to be vaccinated. If vax. rates keep falling introduce limited compulsory schemes.

You'd need a globally coordinated effort to do that. It ain't gonna happen.

It has to happen - not just for anti-vaxxers but also for climate change, GMOs, international terrorism and people trafficking. Nationwide firewalls already exist and could be implemented if globally agreed and coordinated systems cannot be put in place.

[Roses]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49870387

I have just seen this update on making vaccinations compulsory.

[jeremyp]

OK. But far more effort needs to be spent on getting them to agree before forcing children to be vaccinated.

It's being done but it isn't working.

It has to happen

It isn't going to.

Nationwide firewalls already exist and could be implemented if globally agreed and coordinated systems cannot be put in place.

You want the Internet to be balkanised into a series of national networks?

It ain't gonna happen.

[Udayana]

...
You want the Internet to be balkanised into a series of national networks?

It ain't gonna happen.

I don't want that but fear it might happen, hopefully you are right.

I think it quite plausible that the current abuse of communications will boost authoritarian nationalist regimes, exacerbating the misuse: cyber-crime, cyber-warfare - leading to cyber-balkanisation.

[Roses]

We have been talking on this thread about the MMR vaccine, but I was just wondering if flu jabs should be compulsory too? Flu can be a killer, especially some of the new strains of the virus.

[Robbie]

No, it's up to the individual whether or not they have the flu vaccine and some people never get the flu. Doctors often don't have the jab, they mix so much with infectious people they build up an immunity. My grandmother and two aunts never had the jab and didn't catch it though they saw loads of influenza victims. We can't avoid being around flu germs & it can be very dangerous indeed for some people  yet many do not catch it. Those who are vulnerable, ie chest complaints or a history of URTI are advised to have it. I've also known people get flu after having a jab, obviously a different virus to the one they were vaccinated against.