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Author Topic: Tragic find in Essex.  (Read 950 times)

Anchorman

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Tragic find in Essex.
« on: October 23, 2019, 09:51:24 AM »
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Roses

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Re: Tragic find in Essex.
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2019, 10:05:53 AM »
I have just seen that on TV, I was appalled. If the driver is guilty, I hope they throw away the key. >:(
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Tragic find in Essex.
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2019, 01:18:42 PM »
From what I have heard about this incident so far, it is possible that the driver was merely driving the vehicle over the last leg of a long journey.

The guilty ones are those who duped the victims into making the journey in the first place.
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ad_orientem

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Re: Tragic find in Essex.
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2019, 03:39:30 PM »
Tragic indeed. Clearly exploited and payed a terrible price for it.
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SusanDoris

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Re: Tragic find in Essex.
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2019, 07:17:39 AM »
I heard an interview last night (Radio Fivelive I think) with a Syrian who came to this country via criminals, and in some kind of container, who married a British wife and they have a child. He has a job and seems to be a settled member of the community. His brother who has four children wants to get here too, because they will feel safe here. He had realised that it could be dangerous to take that route, but was pleased he had done it.

There was then more information about the scale of criminality involved, not only in Europe and the Middle East, but all over the world. It was so dreadful and sad that I turned off.
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Tragic find in Essex.
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2019, 08:30:20 AM »
There are several details about this story which confuse me. I do not want to trivialise the sheer horror of this story or downplay the lack of humanity of the traffickers, but the way this story has emerged has not been clear.

My concept of a "lorry" is a single vehicle comprising cab and container - or at least a combined tractor and trailer unit. It was stated that the "lorry" had entered the UK in Holyhead. We now know that a trailer without tractor had been loaded at Zeebrugge and that an Irishman had driven a Bulgarian-registered tractor to collect the trailer from Purfleet. It suggests that a different tractor had been used in Continental Europe.

It may be, of course, that this a device used by people smugglers to produce confusion among national information services and reduce the likelihood of detection.

It may be that the occupants died before the trailer reached Zeebrugge. Whether the Irish driver (who may well be associated with the smugglers; alternatively he could just have been hired to do one job) can be considered to be the "murderer" is open to question. If it can be shown that the victims died before reaching the UK then what role in a murder investigation can a British police force hold?

People smuggling is indeed a big business and must be confronted. But a much better solution (how about this for a benefit of Brexit?) would be for a simple, clear, official route for people seeking to enter the UK in order to be free from danger and oppression.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 08:33:03 AM by Harrowby Hall »
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Aruntraveller

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Re: Tragic find in Essex.
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2019, 10:48:24 AM »
Chinese nationals according to latest reports.
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Udayana

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Re: Tragic find in Essex.
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2019, 01:17:02 PM »
Quote from: Trentvoyager on October 24, 2019, 10:48:24 AM
Chinese nationals according to latest reports.

Clearly much more information is needed, especially as id info was removed  - what or which part of China were they fleeing?
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Udayana

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Re: Tragic find in Essex.
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2019, 01:23:06 PM »
Quote from: Harrowby Hall on October 24, 2019, 08:30:20 AM
...
People smuggling is indeed a big business and must be confronted. But a much better solution (how about this for a benefit of Brexit?) would be for a simple, clear, official route for people seeking to enter the UK in order to be free from danger and oppression.

Brexit or not, a system only concerned with the UK simply can't work. What will the rejected applicants (ie. almost all) do?

International/global systems are needed.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Tragic find in Essex.
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2019, 02:27:03 PM »
Quote from: Udayana on October 24, 2019, 01:23:06 PM
Brexit or not, a system only concerned with the UK simply can't work. What will the rejected applicants (ie. almost all) do?

International/global systems are needed.
Agree. I'm struggling to see any chance of establishing this though since there is always going to be a conflict of interest going on.
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Roses

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Re: Tragic find in Essex.
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2019, 05:21:12 PM »
The driver of the lorry has been charged with manslaughter.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-50196265
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Tragic find in Essex.
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2019, 08:33:34 PM »
Quote from: Udayana on October 24, 2019, 01:23:06 PM
Brexit or not, a system only concerned with the UK simply can't work. What will the rejected applicants (ie. almost all) do?

International/global systems are needed.

Oh dear. I was being sarcastic ...
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Tragic find in Essex.
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2019, 08:56:55 PM »
Quote from: Littleroses on October 26, 2019, 05:21:12 PM
The driver of the lorry has been charged with manslaughter.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-50196265

I heard an interview on the radio. Apparently drivers, when using refrigerated lorries for people smuggling leave the temperature setting at 4 degrees which - if they are wearing suitable clothing - is tolerable. However, at customs and similar checks this has to changed to -20 degrees to avoid suspicion. If this temperature is maintained for more than a few minutes then the passengers will die. This means that the driver cannot say that he was unaware of the nature of his cargo. Since lowering the temperature is a deliberate act and he knows the consequence a charge of murder could be realistic.
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jeremyp

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Re: Tragic find in Essex.
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2019, 01:04:39 PM »
Quote from: Harrowby Hall on October 24, 2019, 08:30:20 AM
There are several details about this story which confuse me.

[...]

It was stated that the "lorry" had entered the UK in Holyhead. We now know that a trailer without tractor had been loaded at Zeebrugge and that an Irishman had driven a Bulgarian-registered tractor to collect the trailer from Purfleet. It suggests that a different tractor had been used in Continental Europe.
Trailers are frequently loaded onto ferries without tractors. There are several advantages to that. They take up less space, the driver does not need to cross the Channel / North Sea, a right hand drive tractor can be used in Britain.

In this case I suspect it was done so that, if the smuggled people were discovered at the port, the driver is not in the vicinity to be arrested.

Quote
It may be, of course, that this a device used by people smugglers to produce confusion among national information services and reduce the likelihood of detection.
That too.

Quote
It may be that the occupants died before the trailer reached Zeebrugge. Whether the Irish driver (who may well be associated with the smugglers; alternatively he could just have been hired to do one job) can be considered to be the "murderer" is open to question. If it can be shown that the victims died before reaching the UK then what role in a murder investigation can a British police force hold?
As of the time I write, the driver has been charged with 39 counts of manslaughter amongst other things. It could be that the victims died before he picked up the trailer and I think that will be his defence.

Quote
People smuggling is indeed a big business and must be confronted. But a much better solution (how about this for a benefit of Brexit?) would be for a simple, clear, official route for people seeking to enter the UK in order to be free from danger and oppression.
There already is one for people who wish to enter the country legally.
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Roses

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Re: Tragic find in Essex.
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2019, 10:27:52 AM »
The driver has now admitted he was part of gang who was illegally trafficking migrants to the UK. >:(
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