Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry

[Anchorman]

If god was the father of Jesus, being obedient to that evil entity would be a very grave fault.

 


Then I'm trying to have a very great fauklt.
Alternatively, I'm trying to follow the God who is Love personified in Christ.

[Roses]

 


Then I'm trying to have a very great fauklt.
Alternatively, I'm trying to follow the God who is Love personified in Christ.

What is loving about the god character? Jesus wasn't that loving, imo.

[Anchorman]

What is loving about the god character? Jesus wasn't that loving, imo.

   


Define 'love'.

[Roses]

   


Define 'love'.

My definition of love is liking someone very much and trying to help them out, that certainly doesn't apply to the evil Biblical god character.

[Anchorman]

My definition of love is liking someone very much and trying to help them out, that certainly doesn't apply to the evil Biblical god character.

That's a narrow definition.
Is discipline love?
Forgiveness?
Merscy?
Correction?
Christians believe God is more than some kind of holy do gooder.

[Dicky Underpants]

That's a narrow definition.
Is discipline love?
Forgiveness?
Merscy?
Correction?
Christians believe God is more than some kind of holy do gooder.

The problems start when you try to decide where the 'god character' starts to behave in accordance with your above criteria. I'd agree that God is not always depicted in the Bible quite as black as LR wants to paint him. Nonetheless, there are scenarios where God's response to what he does not like in humans is to utterly destroy them, not discipline them. There are scenarios where he is seen to approve of cheap deception (Jacob and Esau), or fulfilling a curse from Elisha by having children torn to pieces by bears, or approving the blood sacrifice of a man's daughter (Jephtha).
The New Testament is sometimes worse, and it requires the most lenient methods of explaining away Hades and Gehenna to make it say otherwise, let alone such texts as "the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever" (Revelation). Not to mention the sadistic rant of St Paul in the first chapter of Romans.
However, I'll admit that these have to balanced against the texts alluding to God's mercy in e.g. Micah and in many places of the gospels.

How do you discriminate to tell exactly what God is really like?

[BeRational]

That's a narrow definition.
Is discipline love?
Forgiveness?
Merscy?
Correction?
Christians believe God is more than some kind of holy do gooder.

If God is perfectly just then he cannot be merciful.

[Anchorman]

Romans 5:8.
The supreme demonstration of God's love.
Any response is our affair.

[BeRational]

Romans 5:8.
The supreme demonstration of God's love.
Any response is our affair.

He advocates slavery which is not very loving.

[Roses]

Romans 5:8.
The supreme demonstration of God's love.
Any response is our affair.

Even if that verse had any credibility, what is loving about getting its 'son' killed in order to save humans from god's screw up when it supposedly created human nature?

[jeremyp]

He advocates slavery which is not very loving.

That's questionable. On a couple of occasions he told the Israelites make slaves of their enemies but this is merciful compared to the wholesale slaughter he usually advocated. He also regulated slave ownership so that you couldn't - for example - beat your slave to the point that he or she died within the week.

He also told people to execute homosexuals and adulterers and people who go shopping on a Saturday. How loving do you want God to be?

[Dicky Underpants]

Romans 5:8.
The supreme demonstration of God's love.
Any response is our affair.

Accepting this requires taking on the full mystification of the Atonement doctrine, which is made even more confusing within the context of Trinitarian theology.
Romans 5:9 gives the full context, though, and it doesn't make for pleasant reading:

Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

It seems that even this 'love' comes with a threat: "Do this, or else..."

Which is also couched in nonsensical theology: God sends his Son, who in some sense is also God, to take the burden of our 'sin', which 'sacrifice' we must accept, or the same 'God' will give us what-for. Why not just forgive people straight off, if they sincerely repent? God's peculiar antics of breaking up the Trinity, ('kenosis') and coming down to earth seem a very strange performance to be getting involved in. Perhaps all this meant something to St Paul, when he thought it up, but it amazes me that anyone should find some deep truth in it, except of a metaphorical kind.

However, all such matters have been done to death here before, and no doubt no one is interested in receiving attempted explanations. The complexities of the Atonement doctrine seem as various as the number of people who try to explain it.
"God is not a God of confusion". hmmm...

[SteveH]

If God is perfectly just then he cannot be merciful.

God is not perfectly just. The central event of Christianity is a setting-aside of justice in the interest of mercy.

[Roses]

God is not perfectly just. The central event of Christianity is a setting-aside of justice in the interest of mercy.

The Biblical god character and mercy are an oxymoron.

[SteveH]

The Biblical god character and mercy are an oxymoron.

Give it a break! You are seriously boring.

[Roses]

Give it a break! You are seriously boring.

If you haven't any constructive comment, which most of the time you haven't, don't bother to respond to a post.

[Walter]

Give it a break! You are seriously boring.

but true ! 😡

[Roses]

What is merciful about the Biblical god character, I have not been given a sensible answer?

[Dicky Underpants]

What is merciful about the Biblical god character, I have not been given a sensible answer?

You still keep referring to the 'god character' as if the words in the Bible were consistent, and indeed written by people who were being used as puppets by an evil deity, like some fundamentalist in reverse.
Now, I'm the first to agree with you that a lot of the images of God's actions in the Bible appear quite diabolical. But others do not. All these differing ideas were written by very different people over a very long period of time. To suggest they were all painting the same picture is no way to approach any set of written texts - whatever their provenance. I consider these writings to be merely works of literature, and I presume that that is really what you consider them to be (unless you actually do believe they were inspired by an evil deity).
Now, I suppose that most believers (even quite liberal ones) would think that my approach falls way short of the mark, but in the interest of fairness and simple objectivity, I feel obliged to state it (for the Nth time - which doesn't quite match your reiterated complaints about 'god' which surely number N to the power N).
Bernard Shaw gave a witty and informative account of how the ideas of God change in the Bible "The Adventures of the Black Girl in her search for God". Judging from your posts, you haven't read it. It might clarify a few things if you did so.

However - let's let a text from the Bible have the last word. It's from the first chapter of Isaiah:

[15] When you spread forth your hands,
I will hide my eyes from you;
even though you make many prayers,
I will not listen;
your hands are full of blood.
[16] Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean;
remove the evil of your doings
from before my eyes;
cease to do evil,
[17] learn to do good;
seek justice,
correct oppression;
defend the fatherless,
plead for the widow.
[18] "Come now, let us reason together,
says the LORD:
though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;

Now tell me - what do find so horrible about all that?

[Roses]

You still keep referring to the 'god character' as if the words in the Bible were consistent, and indeed written by people who were being used as puppets by an evil deity, like some fundamentalist in reverse.
Now, I'm the first to agree with you that a lot of the images of God's actions in the Bible appear quite diabolical. But others do not. All these differing ideas were written by very different people over a very long period of time. To suggest they were all painting the same picture is no way to approach any set of written texts - whatever their provenance. I consider these writings to be merely works of literature, and I presume that that is really what you consider them to be (unless you actually do believe they were inspired by an evil deity).
Now, I suppose that most believers (even quite liberal ones) would think that my approach falls way short of the mark, but in the interest of fairness and simple objectivity, I feel obliged to state it (for the Nth time - which doesn't quite match your reiterated complaints about 'god' which surely number N to the power N).
Bernard Shaw gave a witty and informative account of how the ideas of God change in the Bible "The Adventures of the Black Girl in her search for God". Judging from your posts, you haven't read it. It might clarify a few things if you did so.

However - let's let a text from the Bible have the last word. It's from the first chapter of Isaiah:

Now tell me - what do find so horrible about all that?

If the god character exists, it has no right to preach, as it is entirely evil.

[jeremyp]

Now, I'm the first to agree with you that a lot of the images of God's actions in the Bible appear quite diabolical. But others do not.

Can  you give some examples from the Bible of God doing things that were not bad excluding any stuff that Jesus did and any stuff that God did to mitigate bad things he had previously done?

This is a serious challenge. In general, I agree with your point that there is no "God character": the Bible was written by many people, all with different ideas of the character of God, but I can't think of any unimpeachably good things that any of these God characters did.

[SteveH]

If the god character exists, it has no right to preach, as it is entirely evil.

For someone who doesn't believe in God, you spend a hell of a lot of time condemning God. You really need to get over yourself.

[Robbie]

Can  you give some examples from the Bible of God doing things that were not bad excluding any stuff that Jesus did and any stuff that God did to mitigate bad things he had previously done?

This is a serious challenge. In general, I agree with your point that there is no "God character": the Bible was written by many people, all with different ideas of the character of God, but I can't think of any unimpeachably good things that any of these God characters did.

1 Kings 9:3-9

When he came to Beersheba in Judah, he (Elijah) left his servant there, 4 while he himself went a day’s journey into the wilderness. He came to a broom bush, sat down under it and prayed that he might die. “I have had enough, Lord,” he said. “Take my life; I am no better than my ancestors.” 5 Then he lay down under the bush and fell asleep.

All at once an angel touched him and said, “Get up and eat.” 6 He looked around, and there by his head was some bread baked over hot coals, and a jar of water. He ate and drank and then lay down again.

7 The angel of the Lord came back a second time and touched him and said, “Get up and eat, for the journey is too much for you.” 8 So he got up and ate and drank. Strengthened by that food, he traveled forty days and forty nights until he reached Horeb, the mountain of God. 9 There he went into a cave and spent the night.

.......

God made sure Elijah ate, drank and rested so he could move on with confidence. That was very helpful.

[Roses]

For someone who doesn't believe in God, you spend a hell of a lot of time condemning God. You really need to get over yourself.

You obviously find my posts interesting as it is rare for you not to reply to them.

[jeremyp]

1 Kings 9:3-9

When he came to Beersheba in Judah, he (Elijah) left his servant there, 4 while he himself went a day’s journey into the wilderness. He came to a broom bush, sat down under it and prayed that he might die. “I have had enough, Lord,” he said. “Take my life; I am no better than my ancestors.” 5 Then he lay down under the bush and fell asleep.

All at once an angel touched him and said, “Get up and eat.” 6 He looked around, and there by his head was some bread baked over hot coals, and a jar of water. He ate and drank and then lay down again.

7 The angel of the Lord came back a second time and touched him and said, “Get up and eat, for the journey is too much for you.” 8 So he got up and ate and drank. Strengthened by that food, he traveled forty days and forty nights until he reached Horeb, the mountain of God. 9 There he went into a cave and spent the night.

.......

God made sure Elijah ate, drank and rested so he could move on with confidence. That was very helpful.

Why was he on the journey at all?