Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry

[Christine]

I thought the most fundamental aspect of Christianity was the idea that somebody else can atone for a person's wrongdoing?  Is the crucifixion not at the heart of Christianity? 

Anyway, if this alleged deity had wanted to provide guidance less prone to excusing bigotry than the Bible, it could have taken a leaf out of The Satanic Temple's book (being timeless it would know about them, just as it would know all about how the Bible would be used to justify bigotry, not to mention torture and murder):

7 tenets of TST:

1. One should strive to act with compassion and empathy towards all creatures in accordance with reason.
2. The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
3. One's body is inviolable, subject to one's own will alone.
4. The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo your own.
5. Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the world. We should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit our beliefs.
6. People are fallible. If we make a mistake, we should do our best to rectify it and resolve any harm that may have been caused.
7. Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Temple#Tenets

Interesting documentary on Netflix called Hail Satan.
 

[Sassy]

I thought the most fundamental aspect of Christianity was the idea that somebody else can atone for a person's wrongdoing?  Is the crucifixion not at the heart of Christianity? 

Atoning....make amends or reparation.
"a human sacrifice to atone for the sin"


To understand atonement Gods way you need to understand sin.

There were many sacrifices made every year for sins of the people by the high priests, So what was different between Christs sacrifice of himself which meant it was no longer required for the other sacrifices? 

Anyway, if this alleged deity had wanted to provide guidance less prone to excusing bigotry than the Bible, it could have taken a leaf out of The Satanic Temple's book (being timeless it would know about them, just as it would know all about how the Bible would be used to justify bigotry, not to mention torture and murder):

7 tenets of TST:

1. One should strive to act with compassion and empathy towards all creatures in accordance with reason.
2. The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
3. One's body is inviolable, subject to one's own will alone.
4. The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo your own.
5. Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the world. We should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit our beliefs.
6. People are fallible. If we make a mistake, we should do our best to rectify it and resolve any harm that may have been caused.
7. Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Temple#Tenets

Interesting documentary on Netflix called Hail Satan.

  What exactly will following the above do?  Is Satan saying  in  his book that science and no power of his own actually is the basis for his book The satanic temple? 
Because there in lies the problem. God claims he created the world and everything in it. Are you saying Satan is saying science did it nothing to do with him?   I see no relevance in what you have written regarding the bible. After all the bible is a book by many prophets of God collective. Who wrote the 7 tenets and why for the temple of Satan

[Outrider]

To understand atonement Gods way you need to understand sin.

Seeing as you apparently have the inside track on this, Sass, could you explain why eating shellfish, having the wrong haircut and having gay sex are sinful, but keeping slaves and raping people aren't?

There were many sacrifices made every year for sins of the people by the high priests, So what was different between Christs sacrifice of himself which meant it was no longer required for the other sacrifices?

If God required sacrifices of people, does that mean that 'sin' and 'immorality' are separate concepts?  After all, killing something/someone else to alleviate your own sins would seem pretty immoral to me.

What exactly will following the above do?  Is Satan saying  in  his book that science and no power of his own actually is the basis for his book The satanic temple?

Satan has a book out! Cool, do you have a link?

Because there in lies the problem. God claims he created the world and everything in it. Are you saying Satan is saying science did it nothing to do with him?

So many questions... if Christianity is a monotheism, who the is Satan, and why doesn't God just overrule him?  If we don't believe in God, what makes you think we're going to believe in Satan?  If God kills and threatens so many more people than Satan, why is Satan the bad guy?

I see no relevance in what you have written regarding the bible.

That's OK, many of us see little relevance in the Bible, so...

Who wrote the 7 tenets and why for the temple of Satan.

I believe it was a collective effort by a number of the early members of the organisation. As to why, primarily I think to show how easy it was to do something better than the rather limited 'ten commandments' that are regularly espoused by the less critical of the Christian apologists as the pinnacle of moral teaching.

O.

[Roses]

Atoning....make amends or reparation.
"a human sacrifice to atone for the sin"


To understand atonement Gods way you need to understand sin.

There were many sacrifices made every year for sins of the people by the high priests, So what was different between Christs sacrifice of himself which meant it was no longer required for the other sacrifices?    What exactly will following the above do?  Is Satan saying  in  his book that science and no power of his own actually is the basis for his book The satanic temple? 
Because there in lies the problem. God claims he created the world and everything in it. Are you saying Satan is saying science did it nothing to do with him?   I see no relevance in what you have written regarding the bible. After all the bible is a book by many prophets of God collective. Who wrote the 7 tenets and why for the temple of Satan

There is no evidence the Bible, and everything attributed to the characters therein including god and Satan, is anymore than a product of the human imagination.

[ippy]

Atoning....make amends or reparation.
"a human sacrifice to atone for the sin"


To understand atonement Gods way you need to understand sin.

There were many sacrifices made every year for sins of the people by the high priests, So what was different between Christs sacrifice of himself which meant it was no longer required for the other sacrifices?    What exactly will following the above do?  Is Satan saying  in  his book that science and no power of his own actually is the basis for his book The satanic temple? 
Because there in lies the problem. God claims he created the world and everything in it. Are you saying Satan is saying science did it nothing to do with him?   I see no relevance in what you have written regarding the bible. After all the bible is a book by many prophets of God collective. Who wrote the 7 tenets and why for the temple of Satan

I'm sure it doesn't state anywhere in the bible that satan had anything to do leprechauns either Sassy.

Don't you just love your dream world Sass.

[Owlswing]

Replying to various comments above, the Christian God is, supposedly, all powerful and nothing exists or happens without his OK. That being the case it means that Satan is allowed to exist and interact with humans by God's will.

For what reason does God allow Satan to exist, why does he allow Satan to operate?

Why does he allow, and I paraphrase Stephen Fry, childhood cancer?

A God of love? - If a God that allows children to be born with cancer is the God of Love then give me a God who is a right bastard anytime, at least we can then expectthe bastardry.

[Nearly Sane]

Replying to various comments above, the Christian God is, supposedly, all powerful and nothing exists or happens without his OK. That being the case it means that Satan is allowed to exist and interact with humans by God's will.

For what reason does God allow Satan to exist, why does he allow Satan to operate?

Why does he allow, and I paraphrase Stephen Fry, childhood cancer?

A God of love? - If a God that allows children to be born with cancer is the God of Love then give me a God who is a right bastard anytime, at least we can then expectthe bastardry.

I agree and nice to see you back posting.

[Spud]

I thought the most fundamental aspect of Christianity was the idea that somebody else can atone for a person's wrongdoing?  Is the crucifixion not at the heart of Christianity? 

Anyway, if this alleged deity had wanted to provide guidance less prone to excusing bigotry than the Bible, it could have taken a leaf out of The Satanic Temple's book (being timeless it would know about them, just as it would know all about how the Bible would be used to justify bigotry, not to mention torture and murder):

7 tenets of TST:

1. One should strive to act with compassion and empathy towards all creatures in accordance with reason.
2. The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
3. One's body is inviolable, subject to one's own will alone.
4. The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo your own.
5. Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the world. We should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit our beliefs.
6. People are fallible. If we make a mistake, we should do our best to rectify it and resolve any harm that may have been caused.
7. Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Temple#Tenets

Interesting documentary on Netflix called Hail Satan.

You've got it mixed up. Satan is the angel who rebelled against God and who misleads people into using God's word to justify bigotry. All the stuff you quote from this link comes from God's word, not Satan.

Regarding your first point: using the analogy that only someone who has no debt of his own can pay the debt of another: all humans are in 'debt' through their sin, so only a person who has no sin of their own can atone for another person's wrongdoing.

[Spud]

Replying to various comments above, the Christian God is, supposedly, all powerful and nothing exists or happens without his OK. That being the case it means that Satan is allowed to exist and interact with humans by God's will.

For what reason does God allow Satan to exist, why does he allow Satan to operate?

Why does he allow, and I paraphrase Stephen Fry, childhood cancer?

A God of love? - If a God that allows children to be born with cancer is the God of Love then give me a God who is a right bastard anytime, at least we can then expectthe bastardry.

Ultimately, God used Satan to demonstrate fully his character and the extent of his love for us.

[Roses]

Ultimately, God used Satan to demonstrate fully his character and the extent of his love for us.

You are having a 'larf'!

[Nearly Sane]

Ultimately, God used Satan to demonstrate fully his character and the extent of his love for us.

Ultimately, God used coronavirus, childhood cancer, tsunamis to demonstrate fully his character and the extent of his love for us.

Because you god that you worship is an evil thug who bathes in blood and suffering.

[Sebastian Toe]

You've got it mixed up. Satan is the angel who rebelled against God and who misleads people into using God's word to justify bigotry.

How does he do that?

[Owlswing]

Quote from Spud

You've got it mixed up. Satan is the angel who rebelled against God and who misleads people into using God's word to justify bigotry.

Quote from Sebastian Toe

How does he do that?

In my experience by reading what is in the Bible and going by what it actually says and not as it is interpreted by Christians.

I know that I left the Christian faith behind me a long time ago, but I remember that I left for what I saw as a rock solid reason - A Padre preaching to a church full of soldiers - preaching what? the Ten Commandments - he got to Six and my faith in the Christian Church shot out of the window!

I regret to say that all the prayers said by and for the soldiers in that church that day and every Sunday following (Church attendance was compulsory) did no bloody good at all! Of the 120 blokes in my intake just 14 are still alive today! An awful lot of those dead are so thanks to the followers of Allah! So much for the prayers said every Sunday for the Christian God to keep them safe "in his Holy and Loving Hands" (capitals as in tne prayer sheets!).

 

[Spud]

Ultimately, God used coronavirus, childhood cancer, tsunamis to demonstrate fully his character and the extent of his love for us.

Because you god that you worship is an evil thug who bathes in blood and suffering.

No, God is not evil, he takes everyone's life because we are all sinners. Satan is evil, and God the Son came to defeat him. But it cost Jesus his life, hence showing us his love for us.

[Sebastian Toe]

. Satan is evil, and God the Son came to defeat him.

Was he successful?

[Stranger]

No, God is not evil, he takes everyone's life because we are all sinners.

According to your silly stories, who made us? If everybody fails a test, it isn't a fair test, it's a design flaw.

Satan is evil, and God the Son came to defeat him.

Again, according to your fantasy, who made Satan? If "God the Son" came to defeat him, then why is he not defeated?

But it cost Jesus his life, hence showing us his love for us.

But it didn't cost him his life, did it? According to your myths, Jesus is alive.

This is all truly jaw-dropping idiocy. It's incredible that such an utterly absurd and totally illogical story can become so embedded in some people's minds that they seem to be literally bind to the fact that it's all obviously absurd.

[Nearly Sane]

Was he successful?

It's in extra time

[jeremyp]

You've got it mixed up. Satan is the angel who rebelled against God and who misleads people into using God's word to justify bigotry. All the stuff you quote from this link comes from God's word, not Satan.

Regarding your first point: using the analogy that only someone who has no debt of his own can pay the debt of another: all humans are in 'debt' through their sin, so only a person who has no sin of their own can atone for another person's wrongdoing.

Huh? I have a mortgage. Even so, if my brother came to me asking for help in paying off his payday loan, I can still do it.

On the other hand, I can’t do his prison sentence for him. Punishments for crimes do not work like debts.

[jeremyp]

No, God is not evil, he takes everyone's life because we are all sinners. Satan is evil, and God the Son came to defeat him. But it cost Jesus his life, hence showing us his love for us.

God kills us all because we all do things that he told some people 2,000 years ago are wrong. I fail to see how Satan could be more evil than that.

[Nearly Sane]

No, God is not evil, he takes everyone's life because we are all sinners. Satan is evil, and God the Son came to defeat him. But it cost Jesus his life, hence showing us his love for us.

My four day old neice that died was a  sinner so your god killed her? You worship a thug god. You love a psychopath god. Your god lives pain and that makes you spunk your jizz.   

[Sassy]

Seeing as you apparently have the inside track on this, Sass, could you explain why eating shellfish, having the wrong haircut and having gay sex are sinful, but keeping slaves and raping people aren't?

Do you really believe that eating shellfish is high temperatures is healthy? As for haircuts why did Samson live at a time when he was not allowed to cut his hair or where did his strength come from if it went when hair cut? Keeping slaves was something man did and raping has never been allowed.

If God required sacrifices of people, does that mean that 'sin' and 'immorality' are separate concepts?  After all, killing something/someone else to alleviate your own sins would seem pretty immoral to me.

What is sin? God hated human sacrifices they sacrificed their children. Do you not see how people were at that time. Immorality or immoral  = not conforming to accepted standards of morality. So given that is comes from not conforming to accepted standards of Morality then humans had already decided what the standards were.  Do you conform to the 10 commandments and were they for everyone when given? So we are accepting that the concept of sin and morality can only be observed and accepted by the standards you adopt.

Satan has a book out! Cool, do you have a link?

I was replying to what was written by another person. You and I, are fully aware of what was referred to and answered.

So many questions... if Christianity is a monotheism, who the is Satan, and why doesn't God just overrule him?  If we don't believe in God, what makes you think we're going to believe in Satan?  If God kills and threatens so many more people than Satan, why is Satan the bad guy?

We have to ask do you get what you write from what you read or by studying the bible. Because it cannot be both ways.

That's OK, many of us see little relevance in the Bible, so...

I believe it was a collective effort by a number of the early members of the organisation. As to why, primarily I think to show how easy it was to do something better than the rather limited 'ten commandments' that are regularly espoused by the less critical of the Christian apologists as the pinnacle of moral teaching.

O.

  Do you believe any of the 10 commandments to be acceptable and if so, which? If there are some you do not find acceptable then post and explain why.

[Roses]

The god featured in that not so good book doesn't know the meaning of the word 'good'.

[jeremyp]

Do you really believe that eating shellfish is high temperatures is healthy?

Now we've invented refrigeration, any reasonable god would relax that rule. Yet, nothing.

As for haircuts why did Samson live at a time when he was not allowed to cut his hair or where did his strength come from if it went when hair cut?

You know that story is fictional, right?

Keeping slaves was something man did

Including Christians.

and raping has never been allowed.

Unless the victim fails to cry out, in which case she is stoned to death along with the rapist. Deuteronomy 22:23-29

God hated human sacrifices they sacrificed their children.

God sacrificed his own child. Hypocritical or what?

[Spud]

My four day old neice...

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[Nearly Sane]

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Truth hurts, doesn't it.