Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry

[jeremyp]

Very erudite answer. Spud has got a point: I don't think faithful, mutually serving and loving homosexual relationships are sinful, and I welcomed the equalisation of the age of consent, and later the introduction of civil partnerships, which gave homosexual couples the same legal rights as married heterosexual couples, but the anatomical point does suggest that gay relationships should not be regarded as absolutely on a par with heterosexual ones, which is why I think gay marriage was a step too far, since it didn't give gay couples any new rights, and was thus purely cosmetic.

I don’t think relationships should be judged by which holes are available into which a penis can be inserted. Furthermore, if the difference between a marriage and a civil partnership is cosmetic, there’s no reason not to give gay people equal rights in that regard.

[Roses]

Please do not hold your breath waiting for this to become fact! Spud would have a heartattack!

Some churches are happy to give a blessing to gay couples, I am not sure if they can perform the marriage service.

[Nearly Sane]

Some churches are happy to give a blessing to gay couples, I am not sure if they can perform the marriage service.

Scottish Piskies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40190204

[Roses]

Scottish Piskies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40190204

Good for them.

[SteveH]

Hasn't it occurred to you that whatever gay couples have going between them in their private life is none of anybody else's business, so really the expression of go forth and multiply applies to you as much as it does to that other ignoramus.

Whatever happened to thinking for yourselves you two?

ippy

I do think for myself. It is possible to do so, and yet come to different conclusions to you, you know.

[Owlswing]

I do think for myself. It is possible to do so, and yet come to different conclusions to you, you know.

Precisely the answer one would expect form a properly brainwashed Christian.

[Aruntraveller]

I do think for myself. It is possible to do so, and yet come to different conclusions to you, you know.

Yes. You've come to the conclusion that my relationship is less valid thàn every heterosexual married couples in the country. And you've done that without knowing anything about my relationship. That is quite breathtaking arrogance dont you think?

[SteveH]

Yes. You've come to the conclusion that my relationship is less valid thàn every heterosexual married couples in the country. And you've done that without knowing anything about my relationship. That is quite breathtaking arrogance dont you think?

Don't be silly.

[Nearly Sane]

Don't be silly.

That's how your twee homophobia reads to me. Why do want trent's relationship as marked different from mine?

[Aruntraveller]

Don't be silly.

Not being silly. It is what you said. Not on a par. Did you even read my original reply to you?

[Owlswing]

Hanging your head in shame would be a good hobby for you to take up!

Shame is an emotion that Christians reserve for non-Christians - they do nothing that their religion considers to be shameful! It is against their religion!

[Nearly Sane]

Shame is an emotion that Christians reserve for non-Christians - they do nothing that their religion considers to be shameful! It is against their religion!

You obviously know no RCs

[Owlswing]

 You obviously know no RCs

I have known more than a few RC's and I have always found that their aversion to anything even remotely thought of as "shameful" amounted almost to the hysterical!

[Nearly Sane]

I have known more than a few RC's and I have always found that their aversion to anything even remotely thought of as "shameful" amounted almost to the hysterical!

The entire idea of confession is built on shame.

[Gordon]

Moderator:

Several recent posts in this thread have been removed in that they contained direct insults or were related to posts containing insults.

Please read the latest post in the 'Clarification regarding confrontational posting' thread in the Moderation & Admin Board for further information.


http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=15129.msg795126;boardseen#new

[SteveH]

The entire idea of confession is built on shame.

That is not an argument against it. All of us have done and said things we are, or ought to be, ashamed of.

[Nearly Sane]

That is not an argument against it. All of us have done and said things we are, or ought to be, ashamed of.

Possibly but my point was in reply to Owlswing's claim that Christians do not feel shame. And while there are reasons for shame many of the rules seem to me to be pointless - were I to have remained an RC, though I do not think I ever was. then I would be have been expected to feel shame for sex outside marriage, gay sex, and using contraception

[SteveH]

Possibly but my point was in reply to Owlswing's claim that Christians do not feel shame. And while there are reasons for shame many of the rules seem to me to be pointless - were I to have remained an RC, though I do not think I ever was. then I would be have been expected to feel shame for sex outside marriage, gay sex, and using contraception

I agree that some of the things the RC church thinks people should confess and be shriven for are not sinful at all, but the general point remains.

[Outrider]

I would say, here is a reason why you should not do that: simply, men and women's private parts compliment each others anatomically and physiologically, whereas two men's don't. I remember someone once saying that when your heart (which I took to mean finding someone attractive) and your head (eg you know your body is designed for a female partner) don't agree then something's not right.

My biological instinct, though, when someone disagrees with me is to kick him around the field then take his food and his women... haven't we moved beyond the naturalistic fallacy?

Regarding which - sex is not purely about reproduction in humans. It's clear from the evolution of various sexual traits and tendencies that sexual activity has a social as well as reproductive aspect, and that social aspect doesn't solely involve 'biological compatibility'.

You might think that two male genitals are incompatible, but I suspect there are any number of gay men who find frotting pleasurable.  Sex does not have to be penetrative to be pleasurable, but even if that's your thing there are perfectly possible variations available.  You do know that sex isn't limited to the missionary position with the lights off solely for the purposes of procreation, right?

N.B. Just one my personal aggravations, but men's and women's genitals do not compliment each other, they complement each other.

O.

[Outrider]

The entire idea of confession is built on shame.

More importantly, it's built on the concept of sin as a proxy for immorality in order to avoid having to justify any of the individual judgements and just fall back on apparently arbitrary whims.

O.

[Nearly Sane]

More importantly, it's built on the concept of sin as a proxy for immorality in order to avoid having to justify any of the individual judgements and just fall back on apparently arbitrary whims.

O.

That's not more important in a discussion about whether RCs feel shame.

[Nearly Sane]

I agree that some of the things the RC church thinks people should confess and be shriven for are not sinful at all, but the general point remains.

But in terms of whether confession in the RC church it is an argument against it.

[Roses]

I am far from perfect I freely admit that. One should try to atone for one's wrongdoings by trying to put things right and offer a sincere apologise to anyone whom one has wronged.   

[ProfessorDavey]

I am far from perfect I freely admit that. One should try to atone for one's wrongdoings by trying to put things right and offer a sincere apologise to anyone whom one has wronged.

Absolutely - making yourself feel better by going and confessing to a priest seems completely inappropriate in terms of reparation, atonement and learning from wrongdoing. Particularly if it detracts from actually doing the right thing - namely putting things right with the person you may have wrongs and changing your ways.

[Roses]

Absolutely - making yourself feel better by going and confessing to a priest seems completely inappropriate in terms of reparation, atonement and learning from wrongdoing. Particularly if it detracts from actually doing the right thing - namely putting things right with the person you may have wrongs and changing your ways.

Giving the members of the RCC a number of hail Marys to say when they have misbehaved,  has always struck me as being very silly indeed.