Author Topic: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry  (Read 98191 times)

jeremyp

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1700 on: July 09, 2020, 02:13:04 PM »
I was totally shocked the other day when looking at an American forum on which I used to post a few years ago, to see someone who claims to be an ever so holy 'Christian' making the sort of comments about Black people, which would have made the evil Hitler proud. >:(  Basically he was saying that god intended all people to be white and Blacks were an aberration  of nature! >:( >:( >:(  If a god and Jesus are in the ether somewhere and decent entities, I hope they would condemn people like that and refuse them entry to heaven, if it exists.

Clearly he's an idiot.

Jesus was a middle Eastern Jew. By his logic, all of us white people are an aberration.
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Owlswing

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1701 on: July 09, 2020, 02:17:46 PM »

Clearly he's an idiot.

Jesus was a Middle Eastern Jew. By his logic, all of us white people are an aberration.


I've just got in from going to the bank, read the previous couple of posts, went to respond and found this!

You beat me to it.

Respect - Bruv!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

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Outrider

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1702 on: July 09, 2020, 02:30:29 PM »
Nobody has the right to be free of discrimination.

All discrimination perhaps, no, but we have legislation to enforce rights that we as a society have agreed which are rights not to be discriminated against on the basis of some fairly basic characteristics.

Quote
We routinely discriminate and are discriminated against in all kinds of ways.

Yep.  And sometimes it's justified, and sometimes it isn't, and sometimes it's not important, but where we've had really obvious examples of it being widespread and harmful we've stepped in.

Quote
Certain groups of people are protected against discrimination based on their membership of that group but that doesn't mean we can't discriminate against them in there ways.

And whilst I didn't spell that out, it should have been implicit from the context.

Quote
I can't discriminate against a gay job candidate because they are gay, but I can discriminate against a gay job candidate because they are not qualified.

That's not discrimination.

Quote
Refusing to bake a cake because of the message it conveys is not the same as refusing to bake a cake because of the sexuality of the customer.

As I said, not intrinsically, but if you're trying to separate someone's sexuality from their behaviour around that sexuality, that's a difficult line to draw at the best of times, and the law is phrased so as to note that your intent isn't necessarily the determining factor, but the likelihood of the outcome is significant.

If you have no intention of discriminating against gay people, but your actions are disproportionately likely to affect gay people - say, if you object to baking a cake which you perceive to support gay marriage - then you are in breach of the law.

O.
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Roses

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1703 on: July 09, 2020, 02:31:22 PM »
Clearly he's an idiot.

Jesus was a middle Eastern Jew. By his logic, all of us white people are an aberration.

That would make more sense. It is crazy the way some Christians think Jesus was as depicted in paintings of yesteryear with white skin and blue eyes. ::)
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1704 on: July 09, 2020, 02:48:42 PM »
...

If you have no intention of discriminating against gay people, but your actions are disproportionately likely to affect gay people - say, if you object to baking a cake which you perceive to support gay marriage - then you are in breach of the law.

O.
Not in the Asher's case.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 02:59:49 PM by Nearly Sane »

Dicky Underpants

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1705 on: July 09, 2020, 04:23:28 PM »
Your belief with no evidence to support it. It is one's business if they do exist and only allow into heaven people of the unpleasant 'born again' dogma, however evil they have been in life, whilst good unbelievers will wind up in hell.
What would you do about it if they (or the triune IT) did exist  and applied such vile criteria to the fate of humans?
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Owlswing

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1706 on: July 09, 2020, 04:59:14 PM »

What would you do about it if they (or the triune IT) did exist and applied such vile criteria to the fate of humans?


Christians insist that they do exist and do apply those criteria.

And on such support, if they did actually exist, they would continue to operate on the same criteria!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Spud

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1707 on: July 09, 2020, 05:56:55 PM »
So we shouldn't put murderers in prison because it means they have to give up their profession in order to learn that they were wrong?
When someone already thinks an action would be wrong and gives up their profession because they would otherwise be required to do that thing - is what I meant.

Dicky Underpants

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1708 on: July 09, 2020, 06:23:15 PM »
Christians insist that they do exist and do apply those criteria.

And on such support, if they did actually exist, they would continue to operate on the same criteria!
Indeed, and presumably neither LR nor any of the rest of us who think such things are absurd and disgusting could do a blind thing about it - if IT exists. That was the point I was making.
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.”

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Roses

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1709 on: July 10, 2020, 11:24:36 AM »
Indeed, and presumably neither LR nor any of the rest of us who think such things are absurd and disgusting could do a blind thing about it - if IT exists. That was the point I was making.

Maybe eventually human ingenuity being what it is, might find a way of destroying the evil entity.
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Aruntraveller

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1710 on: July 10, 2020, 11:29:50 AM »
Maybe eventually human ingenuity being what it is, might find a way of destroying the evil entity.

I find it a little confusing when you talk about destroying an entity you don't actually believe in.

Surely it would be the belief in an entity that you would wish to erase?
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Roses

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1711 on: July 10, 2020, 11:36:51 AM »
I find it a little confusing when you talk about destroying an entity you don't actually believe in.

Surely it would be the belief in an entity that you would wish to erase?

I don't believe the Biblical god does exist, but of course I could be wrong. I hope I am not, but if it does exist and is as evil as the Bible suggests it is, humans should be seeing if they can find a way of destroying it.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1712 on: July 10, 2020, 06:33:53 PM »
Moderator A number of posts have been removed as a derail as they were concentrating on individual's opinion of others rather than the posts.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 06:42:05 PM by Nearly Sane »

SweetPea

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1713 on: July 11, 2020, 08:33:25 AM »
I don't believe the Biblical god does exist, but of course I could be wrong. I hope I am not, but if it does exist and is as evil as the Bible suggests it is, humans should be seeing if they can find a way of destroying it.

Littleroses, you sound confused. Do you think of God as a physical being? The Christian God is a spiritual entity and thus cannot be destroyed. 
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power and of love and of a sound mind ~ 2 Timothy 1:7

Roses

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1714 on: July 11, 2020, 08:58:58 AM »
Littleroses, you sound confused. Do you think of God as a physical being? The Christian God is a spiritual entity and thus cannot be destroyed.

I am of the opinion that all gods including the evil entity in the Bible are human creations, therefore they can be destroyed eventually.
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Gordon

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1715 on: July 11, 2020, 08:59:17 AM »
The Christian God is a spiritual entity and thus cannot be destroyed.

How do you detect an extant 'spiritual entity', and how have you established that, if extant, it is indestructible?

jeremyp

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1716 on: July 11, 2020, 09:06:41 AM »

If you have no intention of discriminating against gay people, but your actions are disproportionately likely to affect gay people - say, if you object to baking a cake which you perceive to support gay marriage - then you are in breach of the law.
As long as you understand that the law restricts free speech. You're obviously OK with this particular restriction. I'm not. I agree with Peter Tatchell on the subject.

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SteveH

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1717 on: July 11, 2020, 10:58:38 AM »
So do I. Good for PT.
When conspiracy nuts start spouting their bollocks, the best answer is "That's what they want you to think".

ippy

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1718 on: July 11, 2020, 11:43:10 AM »
There has never been any kind of ancient document, now the modern form of the media any irrefutable evidence to be found and presented that would confirm the presence or existence of a god of any kind.
 
I suppose this wish to hold irrational beliefs shows it self where people still believe in things like horology, homeopathy and stage mediums even when the believers are shown how these stage tricks are performed and have the process fully described by people like Derren Brown on just how they mislead.

It still surprises me how often when otherwise very intelligent people in a lot of cases, yet there they are they're devout believers with their heads still full of talking snake like ideas despite the zero  evidence there's about that would, if there were any, support these in many ways rather strange ideas.

I have to agree with Douglas Addams quote, he got there long before me:

 'I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously'.

I can't imagine any kind of scenario where we non-believers would be allowed to forget even for a half of a millisecond if there were or was found sometime in the future indisputable evidence that proved existence of a god, it hasn't happened yet, surprisingly!   

Why not prove the existence of god first and then have the discussion after that unlikely event?

ippy

Owlswing

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1719 on: July 11, 2020, 12:13:23 PM »
There has never been any kind of ancient document, now the modern form of the media any irrefutable evidence to be found and presented that would confirm the presence or existence of a god of any kind.
 
I suppose this wish to hold irrational beliefs shows itself where people still believe in things like horology, homoeopathy and stage mediums even when the believers are shown how these stage tricks are performed and have the process fully described by people like Derren Brown on just how they mislead.

It still surprises me how often when otherwise very intelligent people in a lot of cases, yet there they are their devout believers with their heads still full of talking snake-like ideas despite the zero evidence there's about that would, if there were any, support these in many ways rather strange ideas.

I have to agree with Douglas Addams quote, he got there long before me:

 'I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously'.

I can't imagine any kind of scenario where we non-believers would be allowed to forget even for a half of a millisecond if there were or was found sometime in the future indisputable evidence that proved existence of a god, it hasn't happened yet, surprisingly!   

Why not prove the existence of god first and then have the discussion after that unlikely event?

ippy

I think you have the wrong thread for this particular post.
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

SteveH

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1720 on: July 11, 2020, 12:29:26 PM »

I suppose this wish to hold irrational beliefs shows it self where people still believe in things like horology...
The irrational and superstitious belief in clocks and watches?
When conspiracy nuts start spouting their bollocks, the best answer is "That's what they want you to think".

Aruntraveller

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1721 on: July 11, 2020, 01:36:29 PM »
The irrational and superstitious belief in clocks and watches?

Think Ippy got a bit confused, probably means astrology. As I'm sure you worked out.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Roses

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1722 on: July 11, 2020, 02:06:16 PM »
Mike Pence, the US vice president, is a good example of a Christian extremist who has used the Bible as an excuse for his anti-gay and anti-abortion bigotry. He can probably find a verse in that book, which he reckons supports his support of that con-man, Trump.  >:(
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Dicky Underpants

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1723 on: July 11, 2020, 11:22:05 PM »
I am of the opinion that all gods including the evil entity in the Bible are human creations, therefore they can be destroyed eventually.

This is rather different from what you were saying earlier. Of course, if all gods are human creations ( as I believe) then once belief is eradicated, then the supposed entities would disappear as well.
However, earlier on you were saying that should the Biblical god actually exist, humans should be able to find some means of destroying it. This is nonsense, since such an entity would be the source of all life, by definition. And whether you like it or not, such an entity would be pulling all the strings, whether it be good or evil. If it's evil, it's tough luck.
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Roses

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1724 on: July 12, 2020, 08:21:40 AM »
This is rather different from what you were saying earlier. Of course, if all gods are human creations ( as I believe) then once belief is eradicated, then the supposed entities would disappear as well.
However, earlier on you were saying that should the Biblical god actually exist, humans should be able to find some means of destroying it. This is nonsense, since such an entity would be the source of all life, by definition. And whether you like it or not, such an entity would be pulling all the strings, whether it be good or evil. If it's evil, it's tough luck.

It is MY opinion the Biblical god doesn't exist as there is no evidence to support its existence, the stories in the Bible concerning that character appear to be very human creations. However, as yet we have no evidence to prove beyond all shadow of doubt it is only a mythical character, hopefully one day we will. Have I made myself clear?
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."