Author Topic: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry  (Read 4355 times)

Roses

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Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« on: October 27, 2019, 08:45:06 AM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-50197296

Apparently the RCC is considering allowing some Catholic priests to marry and therefore relaxing the celibacy rule. Why can't it scrap it for ALL priests, it obviously can't be that wrong for a priest to marry? It is about time that church sorted itself out or died a death, which would be preferable, imo.
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2019, 09:03:26 AM »
If you ask a catholic, they are likely to say that priests do not marry because they need to devote all their time to the needs of their parishoners.

A look at history shows that it was a move made in early medieval times to prevent priests from bequeathing ecclesiastical property and money to their children.
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Roses

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2019, 09:09:09 AM »
If you ask a catholic, they are likely to say that priests do not marry because they need to devote all their time to the needs of their parishoners.

A look at history shows that it was a move made in early medieval times to prevent priests from bequeathing ecclesiastical property and money to their children.

We now live in the 21st century, although the RCC seems to be stuck in the dark ages. All priests should be permitted to marry if they wish to do so, and permitted to enjoy a sex life with their partner, using contraceptives of course if they don't want to have too many kids, or any at all.
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Anchorman

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2019, 09:55:02 AM »
Some RC priests can marry - not only converts from the CofE, but in certain circumstances in areas where their denomination has deemed ity necessary. No, I don't agree with celibacy - well, enforced celibacy anyway, but there ase circumstances when the RCC church allows it to be broken.
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Roses

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2019, 10:25:08 AM »
Some RC priests can marry - not only converts from the CofE, but in certain circumstances in areas where their denomination has deemed ity necessary. No, I don't agree with celibacy - well, enforced celibacy anyway, but there ase circumstances when the RCC church allows it to be broken.

The RCC has permitted married Anglican priests who had converted to that doctrine to remain as priests. I still don't understand why they don't completely do away with the celibacy nonsense, priests should have a right to a partner like clergy of other denominations.
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Robbie

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2019, 06:07:58 PM »
I'm sure it will happen, it's almost inevitable.
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Roses

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2019, 11:34:17 AM »
I'm sure it will happen, it's almost inevitable.

One hopes so.
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ad_orientem

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2019, 04:13:45 PM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-50197296

Apparently the RCC is considering allowing some Catholic priests to marry and therefore relaxing the celibacy rule. Why can't it scrap it for ALL priests, it obviously can't be that wrong for a priest to marry? It is about time that church sorted itself out or died a death, which would be preferable, imo.

A special dispensation can be given to a priest to marry, but it has never been the norm for priests to marry, not in the East or the West. As for allowing already married men to enter the priesthood, that is a completely different question.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2019, 04:50:24 PM »
If you ask a catholic, they are likely to say that priests do not marry because they need to devote all their time to the needs of their parishoners.
I think many catholics would favour allowing priests to marry and I doubt the reason you provided would come up very often - rather I though the main reason given was that they were, in effect, married to the church/god, which is not the same as needing to be able to devote all their time to their parishioners.

Roses

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2019, 04:51:02 PM »
A special dispensation can be given to a priest to marry, but it has never been the norm for priests to marry, not in the East or the West. As for allowing already married men to enter the priesthood, that is a completely different question.

The RCC should allow ALL priests to marry if they so wish, forcing them to be celibate is WRONG!
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Steve H

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2019, 12:51:36 PM »
If you ask a catholic, they are likely to say that priests do not marry because they need to devote all their time to the needs of their parishoners.

A look at history shows that it was a move made in early medieval times to prevent priests from bequeathing ecclesiastical property and money to their children.
Citation? That sounds highly debateable to me.
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ad_orientem

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2019, 11:46:50 AM »
The RCC should allow ALL priests to marry if they so wish, forcing them to be celibate is WRONG!

Eh? I was under the impression men entered the priesthood freely.
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Anchorman

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2019, 12:31:34 PM »
Eh? I was under the impression men entered the priesthood freely.
   




Presumably they accept Scripture.
So; where, in Scripture - God's word to man - does it forbit God's servants from marrying?
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2019, 11:43:37 AM »
Eh? I was under the impression men entered the priesthood freely.
Philosophical question - are you freely able to permanently give up a basic human right?


Roses

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2019, 01:38:45 PM »
Eh? I was under the impression men entered the priesthood freely.

Many were forced into it in days of yore, I believe.
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Robbie

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2019, 04:35:09 PM »
If you ask a catholic, they are likely to say that priests do not marry because they need to devote all their time to the needs of their parishoners.

A look at history shows that it was a move made in early medieval times to prevent priests from bequeathing ecclesiastical property and money to their children.

steveh:- Citation? That sounds highly debateable to me.

I have heard what HH said too.

This Guardian article touches on it and speaks generally about the subject of unmarried clergy:-
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/07/brazil-bishops-pope-francis-married-priests-celibacy-clergy

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ad_orientem

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2019, 07:16:13 PM »
Philosophical question - are you freely able to permanently give up a basic human right?

Obviously yes, for there are many people who are able to commit to celibacy, priests, monks and a host of other people, religious and not. Those who find they can't are free to leave the priesthood should they desire to marry. I don't see what the problem is.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2019, 08:09:10 PM »
Obviously yes,
I don't think it is obvious at all - and remember my question said 'permanently' so irrevocable. To my mind consent is only valid if it can be withdrawn in some manner, unless it is clearly impossible so to do - for example to reverse the consent to an operation to amputate a limb.

for there are many people who are able to commit to celibacy, priests, monks and a host of other people, religious and not.
And here is the nub of the problem - there maybe some, perhaps many who can, but there are others, also perhaps many who cannot and are unable to maintain their celibacy and therefore look to routes to satisfy their natural sexuality desires.

Those who find they can't are free to leave the priesthood should they desire to marry. I don't see what the problem is.
Again it isn't that straightforward - leaving the priesthood isn't like leaving your electricity supplier. Priests consider it a calling, a vocation. The church is set up to provide a kind of family for the priest. To leave it to turn your back on all that - it must be an incredibly difficult decision - there are extreme levels of soft control and power that prevent priests from simply walking away. To be genuinely 'free to leave' there must be no pressure or coercion, overt or covert, that acts as a barrier to leaving. I don't believe that is the case for priests thinking of leaving the priesthood.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2019, 08:32:15 PM by ProfessorDavey »

Roses

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2019, 08:44:06 AM »
I don't think it is obvious at all - and remember my question said 'permanently' so irrevocable. To my mind consent is only valid if it can be withdrawn in some manner, unless it is clearly impossible so to do - for example to reverse the consent to an operation to amputate a limb.
And here is the nub of the problem - there maybe some, perhaps many who can, but there are others, also perhaps many who cannot and are unable to maintain their celibacy and therefore look to routes to satisfy their natural sexuality desires.
Again it isn't that straightforward - leaving the priesthood isn't like leaving your electricity supplier. Priests consider it a calling, a vocation. The church is set up to provide a kind of family for the priest. To leave it to turn your back on all that - it must be an incredibly difficult decision - there are extreme levels of soft control and power that prevent priests from simply walking away. To be genuinely 'free to leave' there must be no pressure or coercion, overt or covert, that acts as a barrier to leaving. I don't believe that is the case for priests thinking of leaving the priesthood.

I agree with your post.

Enforced celibacy, may possibly have lead to the terrible sexual abuse problems, which have beset the RCC over the years. However, that doesn't in any way excuse the priests who perpetrated that crime.
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ad_orientem

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2019, 10:49:01 AM »
I agree with your post.

Enforced celibacy, may possibly have lead to the terrible sexual abuse problems, which have beset the RCC over the years. However, that doesn't in any way excuse the priests who perpetrated that crime.

You keep spouting that bollocks. It's still bollocks.
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Roses

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2019, 11:33:14 AM »
You keep spouting that bollocks. It's still bollocks.

And you know that for a fact because?
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ad_orientem

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2019, 11:44:10 AM »
And you know that for a fact because?

If you're saying celibacy leads to buggering boys then yes, it's bollocks.
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Roses

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2019, 11:49:58 AM »
If you're saying celibacy leads to buggering boys then yes, it's bollocks.

I said it MIGHT play a part in sexual abuse, I didn't say it did for sure. As far as I am aware the RCC is the only dogma which has insisted it priests were celibate, and is the one with the biggest problem concerning paedophile priests. Celibacy isn't a normal state of affairs for most people, and all clergy should be permitted to have consensual adult partnerships if they so wish.
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Steve H

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2019, 12:15:16 PM »
You keep spouting that bollocks. It's still bollocks.
I'm not in the habit of jumping to LR's defence, but in this case, I think she may be right. Priestly celibacy may be attractive to some paedophiles as a cover.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2019, 12:27:18 PM »
I'm not in the habit of jumping to LR's defence, but in this case, I think she may be right. Priestly celibacy may be attractive to some paedophiles as a cover.
Surely though what is being suggested by LR is that the enforced celibacy causes the paedophilia?