Some RCC priests might be permitted to marry

[Steve H]

Surely though what is being suggested by LR is that the enforced celibacy causes the paedophilia?

Whichever way round the causal connection is, I think there probably is one. Actually, though, having re-read LR's posts, she doesn't actually say that, only that there is likely to be a connection.

[Nearly Sane]

Whichever way round the causal connection is, I think there probably is one. Actually, though, having re-read LR's posts, she doesn't actually say that, only that there is likely to be a connection.

I think that 'Enforced celibacy, may possibly have lead to the terrible sexual abuse problems' is certainly  easier to read as causation.


As to whether there is a connection, at this stage all I'm seeing is anecdote, no figures. Perhaps it's just the RCC is the biggest Christian denomination? I think a stronger case needs to be made for the claim

[Steve H]

I think that 'Enforced celibacy, may possibly have lead to the terrible sexual abuse problems' is certainly  easier to read as causation.


As to whether there is a connection, at this stage all I'm seeing is anecdote, no figures. Perhaps it's just the RCC is the biggest Christian denomination? I think a stronger case needs to be made for the claim

Well, actually, I agree. It's only a tentat4ive suggestion that there might be a connection. There's a good case for ending it on other grounds, though.

[Nearly Sane]

Well, actually, I agree. It's only a tentat4ive suggestion that there might be a connection. There's a good case for ending it on other grounds, though.

Yep, agree with that.

[Roses]

Surely though what is being suggested by LR is that the enforced celibacy causes the paedophilia?

I did NOT suggest that. 

[Nearly Sane]

I did NOT suggest that. 

Then what did you mean when you wrote 'Enforced celibacy, may possibly have lead to the terrible sexual abuse problems'?

[Roses]

Then what did you mean when you wrote 'Enforced celibacy, may possibly have lead to the terrible sexual abuse problems'?

I didn't say it was definitely the case at all, I just suggested that it might  have encouraged some priests to carry out sexual abuse as it was more prolific in the RCC than other denominations. Not only have priests abused children they have abused women too, so I believe.

[Nearly Sane]

I didn't say it was definitely the case at all, I just suggested that it might  have encouraged some priests to carry out sexual abuse as it was more prolific in the RCC than other denominations. Not only have priests abused children they have abused women too, so I believe.

And that's suggesting it as a cause. I haven't stated that you did categorically say it was the cause.

[ad_orientem]

I'm not in the habit of jumping to LR's defence, but in this case, I think she may be right. Priestly celibacy may be attractive to some paedophiles as a cover.

Maybe, but that's a different point altogether.

[ad_orientem]

As I said earlier, if a priest can't celibacy then he can freely leave the priesthood. As for suggestions it might lead to sexual abuse, I don't buy that, he has a hand.

[Nearly Sane]

As I said earlier, if a priest can't celibacy then he can freely leave the priesthood. As for suggestions it might lead to sexual abuse, I don't buy that, he has a hand.

Won't it become hairy?

[ProfessorDavey]

As I said earlier, if a priest can't celibacy then he can freely leave the priesthood.

As I said before I don't believe that is true in practice - there are significant overt and covert pressures that make it difficult to leave the priesthood, not the least of which is that you instantly lose your home ... and your livelihood ... and, in effect, your family.

[Roses]

I hope all RCC priests will be permitted to marry if they wish to do so, I cannot see any good reason why they should be required to be celibate.

[ProfessorDavey]

I hope all RCC priests will be permitted to marry if they wish to do so, I cannot see any good reason why they should be required to be celibate.

As was pointed out previously the cost to the RCC would be significant, given that there would be an expectation that priestly stipend and accommodation would need to be suitable not just for the priest but also his family. That would be a huge increase and also the RCC (certainly in the UK) doesn't have appropriate family housing, unlike the CofE.

[Roses]

As was pointed out previously the cost to the RCC would be significant, given that there would be an expectation that priestly stipend and accommodation would need to be suitable not just for the priest but also his family. That would be a huge increase and also the RCC (certainly in the UK) doesn't have appropriate family housing, unlike the CofE.

So basically it is down to pounds and pence not doctrine.

[ProfessorDavey]

So basically it is down to pounds and pence not doctrine.

I think there would be an attempt at justification on doctrinal grounds, but as has been pointed out, the requirement for celibacy and banning priests from marrying isn't something that has been there from the inception of the church - it was brought in in 1123 I think. And one of the key reasons was financial - married priests left their wealth to their families, children - with celibacy then the wealth would come to the church.

So just as bringing in celibacy and banning married gave the church a big cash injection, scrapping it would hit the RCC coffers too.

[Roses]

I think there would be an attempt at justification on doctrinal grounds, but as has been pointed out, the requirement for celibacy and banning priests from marrying isn't something that has been there from the inception of the church - it was brought in in 1123 I think. And one of the key reasons was financial - married priests left their wealth to their families, children - with celibacy then the wealth would come to the church.

So just as bringing in celibacy and banning married gave the church a big cash injection, scrapping it would hit the RCC coffers too.

The RCC had better start selling off some of its treasures, to accommodate married priests.

[Robbie]

I'm not in the habit of jumping to LR's defence, but in this case, I think she may be right. Priestly celibacy may be attractive to some paedophiles as a cover.

I don't know that priestly celibacy would be much of a cover. However I agree that paedophiles and other types of ''philes' are often attracted to the religious orders whose work is to care for children and teenagers. There are other professions - teaching, medicine, social work, residential social work, prisons, prob'ly more - that give plenty of access to vulnerable children and teens.

I don't think LR meant that celibacy causes sexual deviation, that happens with people who are not celibate such as married with children!

Selling off Vatican treasures would be a drop in the ocean. Far better for the treasures to stay where they are so they can be seen, many tourists absolutely love going to places like that and are happy to pay to do so; the treasures earn their keep.

I've said I would like priests to have the opportunity to marry. What I do dread is when priests stay single and face all sorts of people wanting to know why and lining up introductions - and he really wants to be single. Which I daresay a few Catholics will find odd. Instead of wondering if the priest has ever sampled the fruit, they'll be wondering what's wrong with a priest who is allowed but chooses not to.