UK election 2019

[ippy]

This is not a political comment - as I said yesterday, I shall notmake any more political comments.

I have a straightforward question and am simpy interested in a simple, e.g. yes/no,  answer. I will not make comments on the replies.

Do Labour supporters agree that many people voted conservative because it was the ony way they would achieve a Brexit, a separation from the EU?

I'm not an any party supporter but in this election I voted Conservative as the surest way possible to complete the leave process.

Regards, ippy.

[ProfessorDavey]

I'm not an any party supporter but in this election I voted Conservative ...

You'll be telling me next that the Pope is a Catholic.

... as the surest way possible to complete the leave process.

And when exactly do you think the leave process will be completed Ippy - assuming we formally leave the EU on 31st Jan onto the transitional arrangement the leave process will likely continue for years until we have a permanent new trading/regulatory/movement arrangement in place. And unless that can be achieved in 6 months (no-one with any credibility thinks it can) then we will be back into the world of extensions or no-deal cliff edges again come the summer.

[jeremyp]

Do Labour supporters agree that many people voted conservative because it was the ony way they would achieve a Brexit, a separation from the EU?

My own experience is that there is some truth to that, but I also know a Labour activist who did a lot of canvassing in the campaign and his take away is that a lot of people he spoke to just refused to vote for a party led by Jeremy Corbyn.

[jeremyp]

So how come Corbyn, in this election and the 2017 one, got more votes than Miliband, Brown and Blair, in 2015, 2010, and 2005? The Tory victory is due to our useless fptp voring sytem. We need to switch to single transferable vote.

Blair got a higher percentage of the vote in 2005. Brown and Milliband both lost by smaller margins than Corbyn in this election.

[Christine]

I seem to have caused a bit of a stir by pointing out that the Tories lied, not the sick child, his mother or any Labour activists.  The nurse in the photo was a nurse, not an actor dressed up.  The hospital apologised.  Have a look at the Yorkshire Evening Post.

LittleRoses, I apologised if my comment on how depressing it is that the Tory lie machine is so effective came over as a criticism of SusanDoris, did you not see that post?

What I posted was not deliberately unpleasant and not untrue.   

You're a funny fellow, Walter, aren't you?  It takes a real talent to find humour in things like people dying of poverty on our streets and working people needing foodbanks.  As you're so talented, perhaps you could find an argument or a fact or two to hang your insults on? Any examples of my 'indoctrination' you want to share yet?  Don't you want to expose my unthinking allegiance to slogans? 

If I'm wrong and we aren't living in the modern equivalent of Cabaret (an analogy that struck me while I was struggling to enjoy the Strictly final) I'll be delighted. 

[SusanDoris]

Ippy and JeremyP

Thank you for replies to my question.

[SusanDoris]

I seem to have caused a bit of a stir by pointing out that the Tories lied, not the sick child, his mother or any Labour activists.  The nurse in the photo was a nurse, not an actor dressed up.  The hospital apologised.  Have a look at the Yorkshire Evening Post.

LittleRoses, I apologised if my comment on how depressing it is that the Tory lie machine is so effective came over as a criticism of SusanDoris, did you not see that post?

What I posted was not deliberately unpleasant and not untrue.   

You're a funny fellow, Walter, aren't you?  It takes a real talent to find humour in things like people dying of poverty on our streets and working people needing foodbanks.  As you're so talented, perhaps you could find an argument or a fact or two to hang your insults on? Any examples of my 'indoctrination' you want to share yet?  Don't you want to expose my unthinking allegiance to slogans? 

If I'm wrong and we aren't living in the modern equivalent of Cabaret (an analogy that struck me while I was struggling to enjoy the Strictly final) I'll be delighted.

As far as I'm concerned, every post is read in a normal voice, without change for different writers, so something that one person might,correctly,hear in his/her head as sarcastic, or humourous, or angry, I hear them all similarly and rely on the words themselves.
this is just a comment, not political, or requiring response!!

[Nearly Sane]

Feel the democracy

"Morgan named culture secretary

Nicky Morgan has been confirmed as Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.

She will be made a Tory peer."

[jeremyp]

Feel the democracy

"Morgan named culture secretary

Nicky Morgan has been confirmed as Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.

She will be made a Tory peer."

I don't recall ever voting for members of the cabinet. The prime minister has always just appointed them.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't recall ever voting for members of the cabinet. The prime minister has always just appointed them.

It's the HoL issue. She's now voting as a peer for life.

[jeremyp]

It's the HoL issue. She's now voting as a peer for life.

Oh, I see. Yes, that's a good point. She should really leave the House of Lords when she gets fired. Either that, or there should be provision for ministers not to have to be members of Parliament.

[Nearly Sane]

Oh, I see. Yes, that's a good point. She should really leave the House of Lords when she gets fired. Either that, or there should be provision for ministers not to have to be members of Parliament.

Yep, agree. And it looks like Swinson is going to be ennobled because the LDs so live up to that Democrat part.

[Stranger]

Boris the Liar is also Boris the Idiot...

Brexit bill to block further delay to transition

[Aruntraveller]

Boris the Liar is also Boris the Idiot...

I thought that was so self-evident that it didn't really need saying, although admittedly some people seem remarkably able to ignore that which is plain to see.

[Outrider]

The problem, for me, isn't just Boris Johnson, Johnson could be reined in (in theory) by a competent cabinet, but look at the veritable box of tools he's working with: Rees-Mogg, Duncan-Smith, Patel, Javid and Gove... I can't understand how even the most pathologically Europe-averse leaver could have voted for that bunch to save them from the past decade of, well, that bunch...

Depressing that in a drive for a bad solution to a problem that doesn't exist we've got the promise of a solution to a problem that does exist from the people that created the problem who are idealogically driven to deepen the problem...

I hope Scotland gets independence, I can claim dual-citizenship!

O.

[Udayana]

Boris the Liar is also Boris the Idiot...

Brexit bill to block further delay to transition

We all know what Boris thinks about business...

[Enki]

Feel the democracy

"Morgan named culture secretary

Nicky Morgan has been confirmed as Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.

She will be made a Tory peer."

Felt the democracy in 2016.

Shami Chakrabarti chaired the inquiry into antisemitism in the Labour Party, which turned out to be a whitewash, and, surprise, surprise,  became a Labour Member of the HoL. as Baroness Chakrabarti later in the same year.

[Nearly Sane]

Felt the democracy in 2016.

Shami Chakrabarti chaired the inquiry into antisemitism in the Labour Party, which turned out to be a whitewash, and, surprise, surprise,  became a Labour Member of the HoL. as Baroness Chakrabarti later in the same year.

Seen elsewhere


'Zac Goldsmith, what a story. Son of humble billionaire, at 23 made editor of a magazine (owned by his uncle), gets Tory nom for leafy London seat at 32, loses the seat twice in 3 years, (also losing London mayoral race). Elevated to the House of Lords. Truly, the British dream.'


The HoL is a cesspit of corruption.

[SteveH]

Zac Goldsmith is an utterly unprincipled snake. He and Sarah Olney (LD) took it in turns to represent the good burghers of Richmond for some years. Now she's got it back, I hope she keeps it. She's probably got it for at least five years, anyway.

[Nearly Sane]

Zac Goldsmith is an utterly unprincipled snake. He and Sarah Olney (LD) took it in turns to represent the good burghers of Richmond for some years. Now she's got it back, I hope she keeps it. She's probably got it for at least five years, anyway.

But he's worked so hard to get where he is!

[SteveH]

But he's worked so hard to get where he is!

He obviously modelled himself on Alan B'Stard.

[Nearly Sane]

He obviously modelled himself on Alan B'Stard.

B'Stard wasn't thick enough to do this

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/zac-goldsmith-bollywood-favourite-film-actor-awards-cringeworthy-interview-watch-video-a7008896.html

[ippy]

You'll be telling me next that the Pope is a Catholic.
And when exactly do you think the leave process will be completed Ippy - assuming we formally leave the EU on 31st Jan onto the transitional arrangement the leave process will likely continue for years until we have a permanent new trading/regulatory/movement arrangement in place. And unless that can be achieved in 6 months (no-one with any credibility thinks it can) then we will be back into the world of extensions or no-deal cliff edges again come the summer.

As I've said in my area voting Conservative was the best bet for leave, as for when we leave I think it's likely we'll be leaving on Jan 31-20 and of course there'll be endless ranging over the details because true to form they wont be seeing it's in the EU's best interests to smooth the path for us, but there, the UK as a country isn't exactly known for being clueless when dealing with other trading groups.

Unlike you I think leaving is a positive move, something if no matter how long we were to discuss this with each other we aint very likely to agree on any of it.

Just thought I'd add that I could have just about tolerated the original EEC arrangement although I did vote against that having toured across Europe several times I could see how poor they were over there at that time and I knew we would have to go down some way before the whole thing would be brought up to speck and only then hopefully our standards would start to better, so I thought, no thanks and voted accordingly.

In several areas the women were still down by the river banks banging out their washing, I'm not making that up, but that's not the only reason I'm a leaver, you're very welcome to your EU, just do me the favour of not taking me with you.

Regards, ippy.


 

[Roses]

As I've said in my area voting Conservative was the best bet for leave, as for when we leave I think it's likely we'll be leaving on Jan 31-20 and of course there'll be endless ranging over the details because true to form they wont be seeing it's in the EU's best interests to smooth the path for us, but there, the UK as a country isn't exactly known for being clueless when dealing with other trading groups.

Unlike you I think leaving is a positive move, something if no matter how long we were to discuss this with each other we aint very likely to agree on any of it.

Just thought I'd add that I could have just about tolerated the original EEC arrangement although I did vote against that having toured across Europe several times I could see how poor they were over there at that time and I knew we would have to go down some way before the whole thing would be brought up to speck and only then hopefully our standards would start to better, so I thought, no thanks and voted accordingly.

In several areas the women were still down by the river banks banging out their washing, I'm not making that up, but that's not the only reason I'm a leaver, you're very welcome to your EU, just do me the favour of not taking me with you.

Regards, ippy.


 

I think we will live to regret leaving the EU.

[Outrider]

As I've said in my area voting Conservative was the best bet for leave, as for when we leave I think it's likely we'll be leaving on Jan 31-20 and of course there'll be endless ranging over the details because true to form they wont be seeing it's in the EU's best interests to smooth the path for us, but there, the UK as a country isn't exactly known for being clueless when dealing with other trading groups.

Except that the EU has conflicting interests - a good trade deal financially for the EU is also a good deal for the UK financially, but politically the EU could do with the UK not getting a good deal out of leaving to discourage others from leaving and jeapordising the EU project - in exactly the same way that the purely financial concerns didn't amount to much in the Brexit vote (or we would have remained), so they aren't the be all and end all of the European side, either.

As to whether the UK is clueless or not when it comes to negotiating international trade it's been an awfully long time since very many Brits did any of it...

Unlike you I think leaving is a positive move, something if no matter how long we were to discuss this with each other we aint very likely to agree on any of it.

Quite how leaving a priveleged position in a trade block of the most affluent countries in the world in favour of trying to compete on the global free-for-all against the US and China for pieces of the pittance that comes out of Africa, South America and Asia is a good move escapes me, but it seems that's what we're committed to now.

Just thought I'd add that I could have just about tolerated the original EEC arrangement although I did vote against that having toured across Europe several times I could see how poor they were over there at that time and I knew we would have to go down some way before the whole thing would be brought up to speck and only then hopefully our standards would start to better, so I thought, no thanks and voted accordingly.

I voted Remain because of how well we did at Crimea... oh, wait, no, that was ancient history, too...

O.