Faith schools perform less well under fairer assessment, says study

[ippy]

https://www.nomorefaithschools.org/news/2019/03/faith-schools-under-represent-disadvantaged-children-report-says

Just thought this might be of general interest.

Regards to all, ippy. 

[Robbie]

I've not heard that but apart from primary schools, there is only one Catholic comprehensive anywhere near me and it's not on the doorstep - easy to reach by one bus though. There's also a Sixth Form College a bit nearer, again on bus routes from Bromley.

They are both highly regarded and their intake is from a cross section of society. I've known people who went to one or both and a couple of teenagers now who are currently at the comp, a colleague also has a child there, her oldest one left a couple of years back. They've all said how good the school and the Vlth form are and what happy atmospheres they have.

I think if some of the schools surveyed are selective grammar schools or private schools (I'll go back and check your link because they may have said), they will be picky, they always have been and has nowt to do with religion.

We have selective state grammar schools near us (not religious tho' one boys' school was founded as a CofE school & at certain times (founders day, that sort of thing), some of the old traditions are brought out but in every day teaching there was no proselytisation. They take children from all religious traditions and none. My sister, cousin and I went to one, my children and niece did too, and it was fine for us but definitely they can be choosey.

The highly academic independent schools are also extremely selective; my husband and one nephew went to one not far from us (again a bus ride), which was originally a Christian foundation, they'd agree with my assessment but they loved their school.

[ippy]

I've not heard that but apart from primary schools, there is only one Catholic comprehensive anywhere near me and it's not on the doorstep - easy to reach by one bus though. There's also a Sixth Form College a bit nearer, again on bus routes from Bromley.

They are both highly regarded and their intake is from a cross section of society. I've known people who went to one or both and a couple of teenagers now who are currently at the comp, a colleague also has a child there, her oldest one left a couple of years back. They've all said how good the school and the Vlth form are and what happy atmospheres they have.

I think if some of the schools surveyed are selective grammar schools or private schools (I'll go back and check your link because they may have said), they will be picky, they always have been and has nowt to do with religion.

We have selective state grammar schools near us (not religious tho' one boys' school was founded as a CofE school & at certain times (founders day, that sort of thing), some of the old traditions are brought out but in every day teaching there was no proselytisation. They take children from all religious traditions and none. My sister, cousin and I went to one, my children and niece did too, and it was fine for us but definitely they can be choosey.

The highly academic independent schools are also extremely selective; my husband and one nephew went to one not far from us (again a bus ride), which was originally a Christian foundation, they'd agree with my assessment but they loved their school.

Is this a comment about the link I put up Robbie?

Regards, ippy.

[jeremyp]

I'm afraid you are unfairly representing the study.

It does not say that faith schools perform less well under fairer assessment at all. It says that pupils who qualify for free school means are underrepresented at faith schools. That's all, no more, no less.

The only person to link this with performance is a campaigner for an organisation called "No More Faith Schools".

[Nearly Sane]

I'm afraid you are unfairly representing the study.

It does not say that faith schools perform less well under fairer assessment at all. It says that pupils who qualify for free school means are underrepresented at faith schools. That's all, no more, no less.

The only person to link this with performance is a campaigner for an organisation called "No More Faith Schools".

I suspect the link ippy wanted was this


https://www.nomorefaithschools.org/news/2019/11/faith-schools-perform-less-well-under-fairer-assessment-says-study

[Nearly Sane]

Is this a comment about the link I put up Robbie?

Regards, ippy.

This may be my fault. You put up a non working link that I tried to correct but may have linked to the wrong story.

[jeremyp]

This may be my fault. You put up a non working link that I tried to correct but may have linked to the wrong story.

That makes more sense. The link you put up in response to my point certainly would fit Ippy's original post better.

However, we could also look at the original report that the "No More Faith Schools" organisation based its article on.

http://www.northernpowerhousepartnership.co.uk/publications/latest-research-shows-league-tables-punish-and-reward-wrong-schools/

This article does not even mention the word "faith". I'd like to know how Alistair Lichton drew his conclusions from that report.

Note that I am sympathetic to his aims. I don't think faith schools are good for religious harmony. In fact, I think they are divisive but, I don't think we need to fabricate facts about them.

[Robbie]

Is this a comment about the link I put up Robbie?

Regards, ippy.

It stems from the link.
I'm sorry if I went on a bit, was only telling you what I know personally about faith schools so you didn't think I was completely ignorant. It could well be different in other areas but where I live has a good cross section of people, there are pleasant areas and more urban ones in different parts of the borough. There's a Muslim school three or four miles away but I've never heard anything about that.

I noted the link was about state faith schools so some of what I said isn't relevant; in days gone by independent schools had a good proportion of state sponsored pupils with assisted places - in effect, a grammar school place. That's a thing of the past.

(Sorry to have diverted, jeremy, but people will read what you posted if they haven't already. I did.)

[Alan Burns]

I think you need only to look at the name of the website to realise that the content of the link might be somewhat biased.

[Roses]

Faith schools don't have a good reputation on the whole, especially the catholic ones.

[ippy]

I think you need only to look at the name of the website to realise that the content of the link might be somewhat biased.

Well yes AB, if you're calling for for schools to have the privilege of teaching our children to think for themselves and against having religious groups think their view deserves a privileged place within the education of our children, well yes that could be taken as a bias. 

I seems you're not aware secularism where it's for protecting freedom of religion and freedom from religion.

You seem to be unaware of how the state finances faith schools in a way that over one half of the UK's citizens that are not religious in any way but are still financing the everyday running of these religious schools/recruiting grounds of the various religions.

Commiserations you need them AB, ippy.   

[ProfessorDavey]

I think you need only to look at the name of the website to realise that the content of the link might be somewhat biased.

Non-sense - you need to actually address the content rather than focus on the conduit.

What is indicated in this link if common knowledge and has been demonstrate in study after study, including official data capture from the Government (who are of course big fans of faith schools). It is beyond doubt that the intake of faith schools is under-represented in terms of the most deprived students (whether assessed by free school meals or socio-economic quartile) and over-represented by students from the most advantaged backgrounds. This is the case whether schools are compared with their local communities or a wider catchment area that many faith schools consider for their faith based admissions.

The reasons for this are somewhat more complex and less clear cut but the outcome is clear that faith schools, as a sector, admit less disadvantaged students than would be anticipated considering their geographic location.