Nationalism

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

We can see a trend towards nationalism in many parts of the world. UK, US, India and some countries in Europe.

Some people see this as a reversal of the globalization trend....and as retrograde.

I see the trend as a natural cyclical process through which societies evolve.  There is nothing right or wrong about either globalization or nationalism in an absolute sense.  They are natural processes that wax and wane. Nothing is permanent after all. The one is bound to follow the other.

Any views?

Cheers.

Sriram   

[Stranger]

Nationalism is about the promotion of one's own nation possibly at the expense or exclusion of others. The alternative isn't globalisation, which is about businesses, but internationalism which is about cooperation and understanding between nations.

Nationalism is a step in the wrong direction for all sorts of reasons, including encouraging xenophobia and racism, making wars (trade, cold, and literal) more likely, and hindering cooperation on global problems like climate change.

[Aruntraveller]

Is it me or do we need to reintroduce the irony meter?

[Outrider]

Hi everyone,

We can see a trend towards nationalism in many parts of the world. UK, US, India and some countries in Europe.

Some people see this as a reversal of the globalization trend....and as retrograde.

I see the trend as a natural cyclical process through which societies evolve.  There is nothing right or wrong about either globalization or nationalism in an absolute sense.  They are natural processes that wax and wane. Nothing is permanent after all. The one is bound to follow the other.

Any views?

Cheers.

Sriram   

There is a fundamental issue with withdrawal from multi-lateral agreements and global initiatives in the pursuit of narrow self-interest in the face of global problems like climate instability, international tax evasion, state-sponsored electoral interference and ongoing international tensions such as the Korean peninsula, Israel, and the India/Pakistan border.

O.

[Udayana]

Everything is part of a "natural process" - so what?

To solve global and international problems we need international solutions and actions.

[Roses]

I think Nationalism is very bad indeed.

[Nearly Sane]

I think Nationalism is very bad indeed.

But presumably patriotism is fine?

[Roses]

But presumably patriotism is fine?

Patriotism is the last bastion of a scoundrel, so the saying goes. I am not in the least bit patriotic.

[Nearly Sane]

Patriotism is the last bastion of a scoundrel, so the saying goes. I am not in the least bit patriotic.

So you feel no connection with any country? I think that's great, but I am forever a Glaswegian

[wigginhall]

But there are different kinds of nationalism.  For example, a colonized country wants to be free from its colonial status, and this will create a nationalist movement, e.g., Ireland.  But when the oppressive country uses nationalism, it tends to be reactionary, e.g., China.  I don't think Scotland is a colony, but Scottish nationalism strikes me as OK.

[Nearly Sane]

But there are different kinds of nationalism.  For example, a colonized country wants to be free from its colonial status, and this will create a nationalist movement, e.g., Ireland.  But when the oppressive country uses nationalism, it tends to be reactionary, e.g., China.  I don't think Scotland is a colony, but Scottish nationalism strikes me as OK.

And indeed one can think a country should exist as the best way of organisation for that area, given that nation states are a default.

[Roses]

So you feel no connection with any country? I think that's great, but I am forever a Glaswegian

I live in the UK and prefer to live here than elsewhere, but it has its faults like anywhere else. I would never support the country in which I live right or wrong. If the UK team is competing against ones from other countries, I would want the best team to win from wherever in the world it comes.

[Outrider]

But there are different kinds of nationalism.  For example, a colonized country wants to be free from its colonial status, and this will create a nationalist movement, e.g., Ireland.

Arguably, i.e. Scotland.  Certainly there's a portion of the populace that thinks the Act of Union didn't create an equal union at all, and that Scotland is treated as an appendage to England.

O.

[Walter]

Arguably, i.e. Scotland.  Certainly there's a portion of the populace that thinks the Act of Union didn't create an equal union at all, and that Scotland is treated as an appendage to England.

O.

Scottish Tourism has a new slogan ;

Visit Scotland - England's biggest county 👍

[Roses]

Scottish Tourism has a new slogan ;

Visit Scotland - England's biggest county 👍

 

[Walter]

Everything is part of a "natural process" - so what?

To solve global and international problems we need international solutions and actions.

i don't think an alien invasion would even do it !

[Udayana]

i don't think an alien invasion would even do it !

True, expect Putin, Xi Jinping, and Trump would be in a race to sign up with the aliens first...

[Udayana]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000c9s6

"Tom Holland and Iszi Lawrence explore historical connections behind today’s issues. This week - the roots of nationalism, its use by past generations and how it has shaped history."

[Dicky Underpants]

So you feel no connection with any country? I think that's great, but I am forever a Glaswegian

"Ten thousand devils take all nationality", said the composer Mendelssohn (maybe his grandfather Moses M. felt the same)
No doubt he was speaking from the perspective of the internationalist outlook of the educated Jew, as well as from his awareness of the historical rootlessness of the Jews  since the diaspora. I like to think of myself as European, but as I grow older, I'm beginning to feel more rooted in my 'Englishness' (whatever that is - it certainly has nothing whatever to do with memories of 'Empire').

[Nearly Sane]

"Ten thousand devils take all nationality", said the composer Mendelssohn (maybe his grandfather Moses M. felt the same)
No doubt he was speaking from the perspective of the internationalist outlook of the educated Jew, as well as from his awareness of the historical rootlessness of the Jews  since the diaspora. I like to think of myself as European, but as I grow older, I'm beginning to feel more rooted in my 'Englishness' (whatever that is - it certainly has nothing whatever to do with memories of 'Empire').

I accept nation states as unavoidable. And I tend towards thinking that small states are better. Their natural insecurity makes them more likely to look to internationalism.


I find it odd that LR who is supportive of  many traditional institutions in the UK like the monarchy is then able to avoid some idea of patriotism or nationalism.

And as stated I see myself as more Glaswegian than anything, and that allows me to identify with those in cities like Milan, Barcelona, Chicago where I feel a similar vibe. That is not to say my city, right or wrong as LR put it, rather the awareness of the many deep flaws are part of my sense of place, and my love for it. Love needs imperfection to thrive, perfection is for worship.

[Roses]

I accept nation states as unavoidable. And I tend towards thinking that small states are better. Their natural insecurity makes them more likely to look to internationalism.


I find it odd that LR who is supportive of  many traditional institutions in the UK like the monarchy is then able to avoid some idea of patriotism or nationalism.

And as stated I see myself as more Glaswegian than anything, and that allows me to identify with those in cities like Milan, Barcelona, Chicago where I feel a similar vibe. That is not to say my city, right or wrong as LR put it, rather the awareness of the many deep flaws are part of my sense of place, and my love for it. Love needs imperfection to thrive, perfection is for worship.

I am a mishmash of different cultures, I was born in Guernsey to a half Channel Islander, half Irish father, and an English mother. My English husband and I moved to North Wales in 1990, having lived in the North, South West, and East of England previously. I obtained Irish citizenship in 2008, just because I could, so I now have dual British and Irish citizenship. 

As for my respect for the present Monarch, I probably have a little more knowledge of the Royals than most due to my family connections, which is why I rate her.

[Nearly Sane]

I am a mishmash of different cultures, I was born in Guernsey to a half Channel Islander, half Irish father, and an English mother. My English husband and I moved to North Wales in 1990, having lived in the North, South West, and East of England previously. I obtained Irish citizenship in 2008, just because I could, so I now have dual British and Irish citizenship. 

As for my respect for the present Monarch, I probably have a little more knowledge of the Royals than most due to my family connections, which is why I rate her.

The point wasn't about Liz but about the institution.

[Roses]

The point wasn't about Liz but about the institution.

I prefer the idea of a Monarchy to having a republic with a president.

[Anchorman]

Patriotism is the last bastion of a scoundrel, so the saying goes. I am not in the least bit patriotic.

   


Can we leave Johnson and his boot licking sycophant Boswell out of it?

[Nearly Sane]

I prefer the idea of a Monarchy to having a republic with a president.

False dichotomy, especially given your usual idea that the only type of presidency is the US.