Author Topic: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'  (Read 7489 times)

The Accountant, OBE, KC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8989
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #75 on: January 10, 2020, 02:42:49 PM »
I which case I really don't understand your position.

You seem to be arguing that they shouldn't be getting tax payer funding (I agree), yet also arguing that it is wrong to look to become financially independent for example using their image as a 'brand' to generate income (best example is perhaps Posh & Becks, not the Obamas) - so what exactly do you think they should do - you seem to want them to be financially independent of the tax payer yet not to be allowed to do the things that would allow them to be financially independent of the tax payer.
Where did I say it was wrong to become financially independent? What I actually said was "If “leave them be” includes them actually achieving financial independence and the tax payer not having to pay for expensive security and flying back and forth and a household abroad - I agree. Good luck to them exploiting RF connections to become very rich and financially independent like countless reality celebrities with connections to someone famous before them have done."

and "There has been talk of them doing something similar to the Obamas - though H&M don’t have a comparable level of intelligence, academic qualifications, job experience, life experience, and public-speaking skills. But if the Kardashians can make money from being vacuous it should be a walk in the park for someone as pretty as Meghan."

Yes I agree - they could model themselves on Posh & Becks. If H&M get themselves a good tax accountant, they can make sure they minimise their tax liabilities as well. Though apparently that cost Becks a knighthood.

My position is that this relocation is a mercenary move to exploit their RF connections for their personal financial gain, because they lead a wealthy pampered lifestyle and want to continue their wealthy pampered lifestyle on their own terms without being dictated to by the RF.  And the whining about British press intrusion and their feelings of being bullied is them trying to justify why they should continue their wealthy, pampered, celebrity existence in the US rather than in the UK. I think what M&H are doing is  normal behaviour for wealthy, pampered, entitled individuals - so good luck to them in exploiting whatever they have going for them and if they manage to pull it off. If, on the other hand, they actually do fade into obscurity and don't try and maintain a profile as celebrities, good luck to them for that too.

But as a taxpayer, if they continue to get funded for security for a celebrity lifestyle, then I intend to criticise that ....unless of course the lifestyle brings a financial benefit to the British public. 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 02:45:56 PM by Gabriella »
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #76 on: January 10, 2020, 03:10:18 PM »
Where did I say it was wrong to become financially independent?
My point is that while you may claim that it is fine for them to become financially independent you have constantly criticised the means by which they are most likely to achieve that independence, i.e. using their 'brand' status (here are just a few examples:

'So if Harry and Meghan are trying to hang onto the RF credentials to earn money to keep them in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed, while dictating the terms with which they will be part of the RF corporation - to me they seem to be just like any another employee who adopts a mercenary outlook e.g. asking for a 3 day-week, the ability to work from home, less supervision by his managers, and the chance to produce less output without taking a significant cut in salary. '

'But the legacy they will be living off comes from their RF connection - so I neither despise them, nor feel sorry for them, nor do I applaud them - they would be just another privileged, wealthy young couple (with a child) and a mercenary mindset.'

'I was referring to her potential for earning a substantial amount of money by exploiting her connection to the RF through self-publicity on social-media and engagements as a RF celebrity. That would be a separate source of income and one that is not based on any discernible skill unlike the income she derived from being an actress.'

'By "start" I mean when they discussed their potential brand as a couple within the RF while considering whether they should continue to get more romantically involved and get married.'


There are plenty of others, but your negativity towards them on this thread is rather depressing as I continue to read their posts.

I think the Posh&Becks analogy is apt here. They developed a brand based on their being a celebrity couple, but also on the celebrity routes that brought them to that position. So your criticism of H&M exploiting their royal connections in a H&M brand is a bit like saying Psoh&Becks cannot create a fantastically successfully brand for themselves (financially and otherwise) as it is exploiting the Spice Girls (and Simon Fuller) and Manchester United (and Alex Ferguson) as without them there would be no celebs and no Posh&Becks brand.

Their RF connections have helped them become global superstars (just as Man U and Spice Girls helped Posh & Becks become global superstars) but that doesn't mean they cannot use that superstardom (now obtained) to generate interest and cash completely separately from the RF.

Good example - Meghan was a fashion influencer before she met Harry - she has enhanced that with the profile the RF has brought. But were she to no longer be performing royal duties why would people cease to be interested in what she wears and therefore why would fashion companies not use her profile to promote their clothing (as they do right now).

Virtually every superstar couple brand (whether Posh&Beck, the Obamas, George/Amal Clooney, Brangelina before they split etc etc) are only superstars due to their earlier activities or connections. That doesn't mean it is illegitimate to create their own new brand and exploit it for financial gain.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 03:14:26 PM by ProfessorDavey »

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12679
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #77 on: January 10, 2020, 03:44:24 PM »
Travel agents and promoters of holidays and tourism in theUK find the RF a  very good aspect to mention, I understand, and the income to this country as a result does, I also understand, definitely outweigh the expenses. When eventually Charles is crowned King, there will be a massive influx of tourists I think.

France doesn't seem to be having any particular problems with it's tourist trade, not that I'm recommending topknot removal for our lot, I'd settle for a nice clearly defined boot print on their rear ends.

Just think whatever would those super intelligent O K magazine readers do without their regular diet of stupid, empty minded royal soap stories and photo shoots.

Regards, ippy.

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #78 on: January 10, 2020, 03:48:03 PM »
France doesn't seem to be having any particular problems with it's tourist trade, not that I'm recommending topknot removal for our lot, I'd settle for a nice clearly defined boot print on their rear ends.

Just think whatever would those super intelligent O K magazine readers do without their regular diet of stupid, empty minded royal soap stories and photo shoots.

Regards, ippy.
That's true - and France gets more tourists than the UK, Paris gets more tourists than London and Versaille gets more tourists than Buckingham Palace.

Their lack of a Royal Family seems to do them no harm at all in tourist terms.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 04:07:48 PM by ProfessorDavey »

Gordon

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18274
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #79 on: January 10, 2020, 04:57:38 PM »
Travel agents and promoters of holidays and tourism in theUK find the RF a  very good aspect to mention, I understand, and the income to this country as a result does, I also understand, definitely outweigh the expenses. When eventually Charles is crowned King, there will be a massive influx of tourists I think.

The tourists would still come though after we get rid of the monarchy : after all, the existing history and heritage that currently attracts them would remain as now.

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #80 on: January 10, 2020, 05:11:46 PM »
The tourists would still come though after we get rid of the monarchy : after all, the existing history and heritage that currently attracts them would remain as now.
True

The Accountant, OBE, KC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8989
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #81 on: January 10, 2020, 06:16:46 PM »
My point is that while you may claim that it is fine for them to become financially independent you have constantly criticised the means by which they are most likely to achieve that independence, i.e. using their 'brand' status (here are just a few examples:

'So if Harry and Meghan are trying to hang onto the RF credentials to earn money to keep them in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed, while dictating the terms with which they will be part of the RF corporation - to me they seem to be just like any another employee who adopts a mercenary outlook e.g. asking for a 3 day-week, the ability to work from home, less supervision by his managers, and the chance to produce less output without taking a significant cut in salary. '

'But the legacy they will be living off comes from their RF connection - so I neither despise them, nor feel sorry for them, nor do I applaud them - they would be just another privileged, wealthy young couple (with a child) and a mercenary mindset.'

'I was referring to her potential for earning a substantial amount of money by exploiting her connection to the RF through self-publicity on social-media and engagements as a RF celebrity. That would be a separate source of income and one that is not based on any discernible skill unlike the income she derived from being an actress.'

'By "start" I mean when they discussed their potential brand as a couple within the RF while considering whether they should continue to get more romantically involved and get married.'


There are plenty of others, but your negativity towards them on this thread is rather depressing as I continue to read their posts.
I am just stating my opinion based on my observations. As far as I know M&H are fairly normal people therefore, given that normal people are fairly mercenary, it is to be expected that their behaviour would be commented on - not because Meghan is beig bullied because she is black as Harry likes to claim about legitimate observations and comments - but because they are normal people with normal weaknesses who live their lives in the public eye, for which they accept the privileges and revenue that goes with living your life in the public eye.

For example, in my experience, most employees are mercenary - I remember when I went for job interviews at a Japanese bank and an American bank in my mid-twenties and both offered me a job, I took the Japanese bank as it paid more, even though the other bank offered me a manager title. And when the Japanese bank was closing I was offered a large pay rise to stay on until the end, while others were made redundant. And after a while there wasn't really anything left to do at work so I spent a lot of time reading magazines and getting paid for it. I could have offered to go do something else to try and justify the money they were paying me or offered to take a pay cut as I was doing maybe 2 hours of actual work per day, but I didn't offer any of this - I just took the money and said thanks and read a lot of magazines. As I was not in the public eye and nor was I getting paid and generating income by being in the public eye, the newspapers did not write a story about my mercenary behaviour, whereas they do for H&M. As an employer I see all kinds of mercenary behaviour from employees. I don't see H&M as any different.

Quote
I think the Posh&Becks analogy is apt here. They developed a brand based on their being a celebrity couple, but also on the celebrity routes that brought them to that position. So your criticism of H&M exploiting their royal connections in a H&M brand is a bit like saying Psoh&Becks cannot create a fantastically successfully brand for themselves (financially and otherwise) as it is exploiting the Spice Girls (and Simon Fuller) and Manchester United (and Alex Ferguson) as without them there would be no celebs and no Posh&Becks brand.
Not at all. I wish Posh & Becks and H&M the best of luck in being mercenary and exploiting whatever they can get away with exploiting. Though I would think it was stupid if Posh and Becks earned lots of money, status and privileges from the public by being in the public eye, and then expected me to feel sorry for them because the press criticised their behaviour or because Simon Fuller expected Posh to show up to promo events or concerts and perform while she was still under contract. I understand why M&H are moving - most of these celebrities want more control and a bigger slice of the pie, and so I don't blame H&M for going after more money and more control. 

Quote
Their RF connections have helped them become global superstars (just as Man U and Spice Girls helped Posh & Becks become global superstars) but that doesn't mean they cannot use that superstardom (now obtained) to generate interest and cash completely separately from the RF.
Agreed. My point was that, if any of the money they get comes from the taxpayer, the public has a legitimate right to comment and ask how the money spent on H&M benefits the taxpayer.

Quote
Good example - Meghan was a fashion influencer before she met Harry - she has enhanced that with the profile the RF has brought. But were she to no longer be performing royal duties why would people cease to be interested in what she wears and therefore why would fashion companies not use her profile to promote their clothing (as they do right now).
True. She would have realised just how much more money she would get paid as a member of the RF, than as an actress. The RF got something out of it too. And now she has decided she wants to call the shots, rather than the RF limiting her earning potential. She wants more control of how much money she has the potential to earn - I can understand that.

Quote
Virtually every superstar couple brand (whether Posh&Beck, the Obamas, George/Amal Clooney, Brangelina before they split etc etc) are only superstars due to their earlier activities or connections. That doesn't mean it is illegitimate to create their own new brand and exploit it for financial gain.
I agree - and as I said I wish H&M all the luck in the world exploiting whoever and whatever they can for financial gain - there is nothing abnormal about exploiting for financial gain. I just don't feel sorry for them about the press intrusion - they need it to keep people interested enough in them to generate the money they need to keep them in the luxury they have become accustomed to. I just hope they make enough to cover the security expenses.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #82 on: January 10, 2020, 06:36:21 PM »
... not because Meghan is beig bullied because she is black as Harry likes to claim about legitimate observations and comments ...
This was shared with me on Facebook, so can't provide the link with the actual Daily Mail page heading etc - but they are identical in the page positioning etc:

'Not long to go! Pregnant Kate tenderly cradles her baby bump while wrapping up her royal duties ahead of maternity leave - and William confirms she's due any minute now'

'Why can't Meghan Markle keep her hands off her bump? Experts tackle the question that has got the nation talking: Is it pride, vanity, acting - or a new age bonding technique?'

You have to ask why exactly the same action - a pregnant woman holding her bump - is treated so differently by the same paper when the woman is Meghan rather than Kate.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 07:29:46 PM by ProfessorDavey »

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2020, 06:40:13 PM »
I am just stating my opinion based on my observations. As far as I know M&H are fairly normal people therefore, given that normal people are fairly mercenary, it is to be expected that their behaviour would be commented on - not because Meghan is beig bullied because she is black as Harry likes to claim about legitimate observations and comments - but because they are normal people with normal weaknesses who live their lives in the public eye, for which they accept the privileges and revenue that goes with living your life in the public eye.

For example, in my experience, most employees are mercenary - I remember when I went for job interviews at a Japanese bank and an American bank in my mid-twenties and both offered me a job, I took the Japanese bank as it paid more, even though the other bank offered me a manager title. And when the Japanese bank was closing I was offered a large pay rise to stay on until the end, while others were made redundant. And after a while there wasn't really anything left to do at work so I spent a lot of time reading magazines and getting paid for it. I could have offered to go do something else to try and justify the money they were paying me or offered to take a pay cut as I was doing maybe 2 hours of actual work per day, but I didn't offer any of this - I just took the money and said thanks and read a lot of magazines. As I was not in the public eye and nor was I getting paid and generating income by being in the public eye, the newspapers did not write a story about my mercenary behaviour, whereas they do for H&M. As an employer I see all kinds of mercenary behaviour from employees. I don't see H&M as any different.
Not at all. I wish Posh & Becks and H&M the best of luck in being mercenary and exploiting whatever they can get away with exploiting. Though I would think it was stupid if Posh and Becks earned lots of money, status and privileges from the public by being in the public eye, and then expected me to feel sorry for them because the press criticised their behaviour or because Simon Fuller expected Posh to show up to promo events or concerts and perform while she was still under contract. I understand why M&H are moving - most of these celebrities want more control and a bigger slice of the pie, and so I don't blame H&M for going after more money and more control. 
Agreed. My point was that, if any of the money they get comes from the taxpayer, the public has a legitimate right to comment and ask how the money spent on H&M benefits the taxpayer.
True. She would have realised just how much more money she would get paid as a member of the RF, than as an actress. The RF got something out of it too. And now she has decided she wants to call the shots, rather than the RF limiting her earning potential. She wants more control of how much money she has the potential to earn - I can understand that.
I agree - and as I said I wish H&M all the luck in the world exploiting whoever and whatever they can for financial gain - there is nothing abnormal about exploiting for financial gain. I just don't feel sorry for them about the press intrusion - they need it to keep people interested enough in them to generate the money they need to keep them in the luxury they have become accustomed to. I just hope they make enough to cover the security expenses.
You keep making out that their decision to relocate and step back from front line royal duties is all about money - yet you have no evidence for this whatsoever.

It seems likely that they will be walking away from huge income from the RF into an uncertain financial future. They'd be pretty stupid to do that if their concern was that they can't make enough money in the RF.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64357
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #84 on: January 10, 2020, 06:56:54 PM »
You keep making out that their decision to relocate and step back from front line royal duties is all about money - yet you have no evidence for this whatsoever.

It seems likely that they will be walking away from huge income from the RF into an uncertain financial future. They'd be pretty stupid to do that if their concern was that they can't make enough money in the RF.
Gabriella has frequently declared here that she doesn't care about evidence.

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #85 on: January 10, 2020, 07:19:06 PM »
Gabriella has frequently declared here that she doesn't care about evidence.
Strange isn't it - and her argument is so poorly thought through.

Think of it this way - if all you care about it money and are completely mercenary and you had married the grandson of a women with private wealth estimated at about £500million (plus his grandfather with a wealth of £30million). Your husband is apparently her favourite grandson. The grandmother is 93, her husband 98.

You already receive a fortune every year for doing virtually nothing.

Would you:

A. Make sure you don't rock the boat - ensure the money keeps piling in in the short term while you do very little and in a few years inherit an absolute fortune, beyond anything you would imagine making from your own hard work.

Or

B. Tell the family you are in effect divorcing them, clearly piss off the grandmother (just about the richest woman in the world) - move to another country and refuse to do your duty to that family, thereby likely ending up with substantially reduced income in the short term and (more importantly) jeopardising the likelihood of receiving a massive windfall inheritance in a few years time.

You'd have to sell one hell of a lot of your new Markle's Sparkle range of lingerie and perfume for plan B to make sense if all you cared about was the money.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 07:21:36 PM by ProfessorDavey »

The Accountant, OBE, KC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8989
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #86 on: January 10, 2020, 07:57:06 PM »
You keep making out that their decision to relocate and step back from front line royal duties is all about money - yet you have no evidence for this whatsoever.
Actually what I said was that it was about money to continue in the luxury lifestyle they are accustomed to and control rather than being dictated to by RF protocol.

Quote
It seems likely that they will be walking away from huge income from the RF into an uncertain financial future. They'd be pretty stupid to do that if their concern was that they can't make enough money in the RF.
I thought you just said they would be making money from their celebrity status - like Posh and Becks and there was nothing wrong with that?

I agree with you - it seems likely to me that they will walking away from their huge income from the RF and into huge income from their celebrity status.

I also agree they are pretty stupid - they should have waited, had the meetings with the RF and worked out the finer details before walking out. Maybe that's just their immaturity leading to impatience and impetuous poorly thought through decisions, rather than listening to their advisers. Sorry - if you're looking for evidence, I didn't tape their private meetings with their advisers so can't provide any and can only base it on reports in the media, which could all be lies.

Charles and William apparently wanted to slim down the RF - again I am basing this on media reports and can't provide any evidence of taped conversations - so M&H could have disappeared quietly without all this drama during the slimming down process - given the baby and grand-parents a chance to bond, and the great grandmother before she dies in the next few years - what with being 93. Maybe Meghan decided it was more important for the baby to bond with her mother and friends.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

The Accountant, OBE, KC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8989
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #87 on: January 10, 2020, 08:13:43 PM »
This was shared with me on Facebook, so can't provide the link with the actual Daily Mail page heading etc - but they are identical in the page positioning etc:

'Not long to go! Pregnant Kate tenderly cradles her baby bump while wrapping up her royal duties ahead of maternity leave - and William confirms she's due any minute now'

'Why can't Meghan Markle keep her hands off her bump? Experts tackle the question that has got the nation talking: Is it pride, vanity, acting - or a new age bonding technique?'

You have to ask why exactly the same action - a pregnant woman holding her bump - is treated so differently by the same paper when the woman is Meghan rather than Kate.
There could be lots of reasons. Maybe Meghan was cradling her bump more often in public than Kate, maybe she looked more stupid than Kate when she did it or people thought it look more staged because she is an actress.

I don't automatically assume that if someone doesn't like the way I do something but they like it when someone else does it, that it must mean that it's racism because I have brown skin - that would be kind of dumb. I would need more information before I started playing the race card. I have heard relatives comment about a white person wearing a sari at weddings - and how they weren't wearing the sari as well as someone else, who happened to be brown. That could be racism or it could just be they had a preference about who they thought looked better in a sari.

There were actually blatant racist comments made on Twitter against Meghan, such as her tainting the RF by joining it, spoiling the blood line etc. so not sure why you picked the newspapers reporting on her bump as an example of racism.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

The Accountant, OBE, KC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8989
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #88 on: January 10, 2020, 08:24:18 PM »
Strange isn't it - and her argument is so poorly thought through.
No, actually my argument is not poorly thought through.

Quote
Think of it this way - if all you care about it money and are completely mercenary and you had married the grandson of a women with private wealth estimated at about £500million (plus his grandfather with a wealth of £30million). Your husband is apparently her favourite grandson. The grandmother is 93, her husband 98.

You already receive a fortune every year for doing virtually nothing.

Would you:

A. Make sure you don't rock the boat - ensure the money keeps piling in in the short term while you do very little and in a few years inherit an absolute fortune, beyond anything you would imagine making from your own hard work.

Or

B. Tell the family you are in effect divorcing them, clearly piss off the grandmother (just about the richest woman in the world) - move to another country and refuse to do your duty to that family, thereby likely ending up with substantially reduced income in the short term and (more importantly) jeopardising the likelihood of receiving a massive windfall inheritance in a few years time.

You'd have to sell one hell of a lot of your new Markle's Sparkle range of lingerie and perfume for plan B to make sense if all you cared about was the money.
As I said, what I think they want is to live the luxury lifestyle they have become accustomed to, but on their terms rather than being dictated to by the RF. In which case it makes perfect sense to walk away from the RF, retain their titles, think they can be part-time royals and do the celebrity circuit, public speaking engagements, promotions etc in the US to exploit their royal connections and make lots of money but on their own terms.

Yes I agree that the way they went about it was stupid - that's what other people have commented on - the stupid way they are going about trying to be financially independent. But being mercenary doesn't stop people from doing things in a stupid way.

ETA - also I think they will still get a substantial inheritance even if they go. I think it will be a similar situation to their titles. If the RF strip them of their titles, they can play the sympathy card and evoke Diana's predicament and death after losing her HRH status. So they are probably banking on the RF wanting to protect their image by not looking vindictive by cutting M&H out of the will.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 08:32:56 PM by Gabriella »
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #89 on: January 10, 2020, 08:30:03 PM »
No, actually my argument is not poorly thought through.
It is if (as you keep implying) the whole thing is about H&M making more money.

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #90 on: January 10, 2020, 08:34:40 PM »
No, actually my argument is not poorly thought through.
As I said, what I think they want is to live the luxury lifestyle they have become accustomed to, but on their terms rather than being dictated to by the RF. In which case it makes perfect sense to walk away from the RF, retain their titles, think they can be part-time royals and do the celebrity circuit, public speaking engagements, promotions etc in the US to exploit their royal connections and make lots of money but on their own terms.
Why do you think they want to live the luxury lifestyle - I've seen no evidence for this at all. Actually I suspect Meghan hates the lifestyle she's inherited by marrying Harry. It must be completely alien to her if you have any understanding of her upbringing, background and heritage. I'm sure she wants to live comfortably, but I think what we are seeing is a couple recognising that there are far more important things than money and the luxury lifestyle and they want those things even if it means turing their back on the excesses they've been used to over the past few years.

I'm not convinced Harry is a natural luxury-lifestyle lover either. Of all the royals (this generation and previously) he seemed to be the most comfortable and at home in that most egalitarian and lacking of luxury existence - in the army.

I suspect Meghan is also terribly home-sick and (as is so often the case for new mothers) wants her own mother close. Again nothing to do with money.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 08:36:54 PM by ProfessorDavey »

The Accountant, OBE, KC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8989
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #91 on: January 10, 2020, 08:35:17 PM »
It is if (as you keep implying) the whole thing is about H&M making more money.
No it's not, It's a well thought through argument based on my opinion that M&H are stupid and impetuous and also want to make money on their own terms, without being dictated to by the RF.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #92 on: January 10, 2020, 08:40:29 PM »
No it's not, It's a well thought through argument based on my opinion that M&H are stupid and impetuous and also want to make money on their own terms, without being dictated to by the RF.
None of which is based on any evidence (although I gather you aren't interested in evidence anyway). You think it is all about the money and the luxury lifestyle (see your endless post to that effect) and if so the last thing they'd do is walk away from ... well ... the money and the luxury lifestyle. It is a poorly thought through argument, based on thin air.

The Accountant, OBE, KC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8989
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #93 on: January 10, 2020, 08:44:47 PM »
Why do you think they want to live the luxury lifestyle - I've seen no evidence for this at all. Actually I suspect Meghan hates the lifestyle she's inherited by marrying Harry. It must be completely alien to her if you have any understanding of her upbringing, background and heritage. I'm sure she wants to live comfortably, but I think what we are seeing is a couple recognising that there are far more important things than money and the luxury lifestyle and they want those things even if it means turing their back on the excesses they've been used to over the past few years.
That's possible. I guess we'll see whether they fade into obscurity or keep their titles and do the celebrity-speaking thing.

Quote
I'm not convinced Harry is a nature luxury-lifestyle lover either. Of all the royals (this generation and previously) he seemed to be the most comfortable and at home in that most egalitarian and lacking of luxury existence - in the army.
People can change due to time or circumstances.

I know someone who did not care about money or luxury and then got married, still didn't care about money and luxury, then had a kid and suddenly started focusing on making money (for his family apparently), bought a big house, expensive car, paid for the luxury flights and holidays etc - his wife almost divorced him because she was so frustrated by his sudden obsession with money and luxury and because he was working long hours to fund their new life that she never asked for. I have no evidence for this story - up to you whether you want to believe it or not.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

The Accountant, OBE, KC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8989
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #94 on: January 10, 2020, 08:47:21 PM »
None of which is based on any evidence (although I gather you aren't interested in evidence anyway). You think it is all about the money and the luxury lifestyle (see your endless post to that effect) and if so the last thing they'd do is walk away from ... well ... the money and the luxury lifestyle. It is a poorly thought through argument, based on thin air.
No - it's not a poorly thought through argument for the reasons I have already given. It's a well thought-through argument. You are of course free to not accept the reasons and keep repeating your own opinion though.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #95 on: January 10, 2020, 08:51:59 PM »
I know someone who did not care about money or luxury and then got married, still didn't care about money and luxury, then had a kid and suddenly started focusing on making money (for his family apparently), bought a big house, expensive car, paid for the luxury flights and holidays etc - his wife almost divorced him because she was so frustrated by his sudden obsession with money and luxury and because he was working long hours to fund their new life that she never asked for. I have no evidence for this story - up to you whether you want to believe it or not.
And the relevance of the 'I know a person' anecdote is exactly - I guess if there is one, it would be of a girl brought up in fairly modest circumstances, then because well known and comfortably off (during her time as an actress), then through the chance of marriage entered a culture and luxury lifestyle completely alien to her, and then recognised after a while that she didn't want this lifestyle and that there were more important things in life than the astonishing lifestyle afforded to the senior royals.

What Harry and Meghan are doing is almost certainly likely to result in their wealth decreasing, not increasing. If it was about the money then they wouldn't do it - but I don't believe it is.

The Accountant, OBE, KC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8989
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #96 on: January 10, 2020, 09:13:49 PM »
And the relevance of the 'I know a person' anecdote is exactly -
. I thought that was obvious - you said Harry wasn't into luxury as he was in the army and I said people can change when they go from being a bachelor to marriage and parenthood.

Quote
I guess if there is one, it would be of a girl brought up in fairly modest circumstances, then because well known and comfortably off (during her time as an actress), then through the chance of marriage entered a culture and luxury lifestyle completely alien to her, and then recognised after a while that she didn't want this lifestyle and that there were more important things in life than the astonishing lifestyle afforded to the senior royals.
Well no I was actually talking about Harry's possible change of attitude to wealth. It was fairly obvious that joining the RF was a tough gig, hence Harry's previous girlfriend turned down marriage and Harry publicly stated it was difficult to find someone who was willing to put up the media circus that would go with being his wife.

There are plenty of examples of what the media do to wives who marry into the RF - the stories about Diana, the criticism of Fergie and Kate. Maybe M&H thought that given M's job as an actress she could handle it, or H thought he could order the Press to back off, or maybe he and his wife got together on the basis that they would have the option to bolt to another country if they didn't like the RF gig as he was the spare, not the heir, and William had had kids. It's not like they had a lot of time to think it through from when they started dating to when he proposed. They were also having a long-distance relationship.

Quote
What Harry and Meghan are doing is almost certainly likely to result in their wealth decreasing, not increasing. If it was about the money then they wouldn't do it - but I don't believe it is.
We'll see - if they keep their titles and go on the celebrity circuit then it would be about money and control and getting to have money while not being dictated to by the RF, which is what I believe it is about. And you were the one who said they should model themselves on Posh and Becks and make money exploiting their RF connections.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #97 on: January 10, 2020, 09:17:29 PM »
. I thought that was obvious - you said Harry wasn't into luxury as he was in the army and I said people can change when they go from being a bachelor to marriage and parenthood.
Indeed that the most likely comparison to the case at hand is that Meghan (largely) when becoming a mother has recognised there are far more important things in life than a luxury lifestyle (which she'd not been used to anyway in her upbringing and early adulthood). Those more important things being family (her family), being in control of your future and your child's future and privacy.

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #98 on: January 10, 2020, 09:27:39 PM »
We'll see - if they keep their titles and go on the celebrity circuit then it would be about money and control and getting to have money while not being dictated to by the RF, which is what I believe it is about.
But that isn't going to happen without massively risking major future wealth. Currently they are on the naughty step as far as the RF are concerned, but probably not to the extent of being disowned and (critically) disinherited. Were they to engage in commercial activity that directly undermined the RF - e.g. spilling the beans on all the secrets, then they might earn fortune (people would pay for that), but the flip side would be the Queen ringing the RF lawyers for a swift change in her will (remember that £500million private wealth).

And I think you are over-egging how lucrative the celeb circuit is - while there are a few 'winners' there are plenty of loser, including members of the RF themselves (Fergie anyone).

And you were the one who said they should model themselves on Posh and Becks and make money exploiting their RF connections.
When I said they might model themselves on Posh and Becks that was largely about approach to earning, but there is a huge difference. Posh and Becks recognised that there was no future in approach to earning in their early career - Becks football career would necessarily end and Posh was never the talented one (if that isn't an oxymoron) from the Spice Girls and their star was on the wane. They needed to forge a new direction as the old one was over. That is completely different to H&M - were they to chose to play nicely according to the RF playbook they'd be guaranteed income to support a luxury lifestyle until they died.

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17606
Re: 'Harry and Meghan to step back as senior royals'
« Reply #99 on: January 10, 2020, 09:33:07 PM »
There are plenty of examples of what the media do to wives who marry into the RF - the stories about Diana, the criticism of Fergie and Kate. Maybe M&H thought that given M's job as an actress she could handle it, or H thought he could order the Press to back off, or maybe he and his wife got together on the basis that they would have the option to bolt to another country if they didn't like the RF gig as he was the spare, not the heir, and William had had kids. It's not like they had a lot of time to think it through from when they started dating to when he proposed. They were also having a long-distance relationship.
No I suspect Meghan genuinely thought that the British media would act towards A-list celebs in the way the LA media do - effectively working with them for mutual benefit while respecting their need for privacy.

You and I might see things through the prism of the British media but she wouldn't have, having never lived here and with experience of life almost exclusively seen through the prism of the LA approach to celebrity.