Coronavirus

[jeremyp]

Hmmm.... Holy Tory Corruption, Batman!


https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1315235954659999746.html

It's either do things like that or wait for three months while the NHS procurement process grinds along. What would you do?

[Nearly Sane]

It's either do things like that or wait for three months while the NHS procurement process grinds along. What would you do?

False dichotomy.

[Udayana]

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-china-to-test-nine-million-people-in-just-five-days-after-12-new-cases-in-qingdao-city-12102432

An entire city of nine million people in China will be tested for COVID-19 in just five days after a small number of new cases emerged.
...
Qingdao's new infections came shortly after China had completed its Golden Week holiday, during which millions of people travel domestically to meet up with families.
...
In May, the authorities tested nearly all of the 11 million people in Wuhan - the city where COVID-19 first emerged at the end of last year.

There have also been mass testing schemes in Beijing and Urumqi.

[jeremyp]

False dichotomy.

No it isn't.

[ProfessorDavey]

No it isn't.

Yes it is - there is no reason why in the current circumstances the already well developed NHS procurement process could not be streamlined to ensure expediency.

The procurement process has been a mess from the start - failure to get the basics right, which are, of course, can you deliver a product that meets the standards required for PPE. We've seen masks bought that failed to meet standards, we've seen companies provided with contracts to produce a product that they've never produced before (e.g. ventilators) and they claimed they could design from scratch and get approval within weeks.

That is incompetence in the extreme and both massively costly to ordinary people, both in terms of cost to tax payer and fight against covid.

But it goes further than rank incompetence, doesn't it, as both example I've used involve organisations run by tory donors and tory chums, while other companies with experience and the ability to increase capacity were ignored.

[jeremyp]

I found this story about how coronavirus affected one family very sad.

[jeremyp]

Yes it is - there is no reason why in the current circumstances the already well developed NHS procurement process could not be streamlined to ensure expediency.

How long would it have taken to streamline it? Once it had been streamlined, I guarantee you would find the exact same kind of mistakes being made as actually were made.

[Nearly Sane]

Looks like the confusion in Scotland over cafes, may be mirrored in England by some confusion over restaurants vs bars. Indications seem to be that a Weatherspoons will be a restaurant.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54514079

[ProfessorDavey]

How long would it have taken to streamline it?

As quickly as alterations in the regulation on procurement of goods and services with public funds can be altered - which is straight away if government chooses to, which it has for its own bungled centralised procurement.

Once it had been streamlined, I guarantee you would find the exact same kind of mistakes being made as actually were made.

I disagree - most of the time taken for public procurement is around value for money, rather than whether the item/equipment etc is fit for purpose. So I doubt very much that the NHS would decide to buy ventilators from Dyson who have never produced a ventilator in their lives and didn't even have a design for a ventilator, let alone a design that had been approved by regulators.

I don't believe the NHS would have bought 50 million masks for £232M that cannot be used because they don't have the right fixing from a micro company run by an advisor to Liz Truss (and his wife), and routed via a company that had never made, nor distributed masks or any other PPE previously.

But then this is from the people who brought you a ferry company without ferries.

[Gordon]

John Crace's take on the performance of the occupant of 10 Downing Street yesterday.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/12/boris-johnsons-latest-covid-strategy-no-hope-and-no-end-in-sight

[jeremyp]

As quickly as alterations in the regulation on procurement of goods and services with public funds can be altered

So six months to a year.

- which is straight away if government chooses to

You have no idea how hard it is to make changes in government organisations.

[Aruntraveller]

This shouldn't need saying and yet the "herd immunity theory" is gaining more and more ground. so this is a useful reminder:

‘The head of the World Health Organization has warned against deliberately allowing coronavirus to spread in the hope of achieving so-called herd immunity, saying the idea is unethical.
‘“Herd immunity is a concept used for vaccination, in which a population can be protected from a certain virus if a threshold of vaccination is reached,” Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said during a virtual press briefing.
‘For measles, for instance, it is estimated that if 95% of the population is vaccinated, the remaining 5% will also be protected from the spread of the virus. For polio the threshold is estimated at 80%.
‘“Herd immunity is achieved by protecting people from a virus, not by exposing them to it,” Tedros said. “Never in the history of public health has herd immunity been used as a strategy for responding to an outbreak, let alone a pandemic.”
‘Relying on naturally obtaining herd immunity would be “scientifically and ethically problematic”, Tedros said. “Allowing a dangerous virus that we don’t fully understand to run free is simply unethical. It’s not an option.”’

[Nearly Sane]

WHO indeed!


https://newspunch.com/who-urges-world-leaders-to-stop-using-lockdown-to-fight-covid/

[ProfessorDavey]

So six months to a year.

Not if the government changes the regulations and enacts them with immediate effect.

You have no idea how hard it is to make changes in government organisations.

Typically as easy as changing the regulations at government level. The process works at the speed it takes those organisations to jump through government-imposed hoops. Remove those hoops and those organisations will move as fast as you like.

And out of interest why do you think I have no idea how hard it is to make changes in government organisations.

And out of further interest what do you classify as a government organisation - is the NHS one, how about schools, Universities, the military?

[Nearly Sane]

Boris and the zoom call


https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/inside-boris-johnson-s-zoom-call-with-tory-mps/amp?__twitter_impression=true

[Nearly Sane]

And Boris the sorting twat

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/13/covid-mugger-back-boris-johnson-wrestling-second-wave-?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true

[Nearly Sane]

'Lockdown does NOT save lives. It postpones deaths. You end up with the same number of deaths. You just prolong the crisis. Can this country stop being anti-science? We may as well be examining animal entrails'.The 'journalist' Allison Pearson.

[Aruntraveller]

'Lockdown does NOT save lives. It postpones deaths. You end up with the same number of deaths. You just prolong the crisis. Can this country stop being anti-science? We may as well be examining animal entrails'.The 'journalist' Allison Pearson.

A reply on Twitter:

"I see we can now add the exponential rate of disease transmission to the long list of things Allison Pearson doesn't understand.

She is the Grand Canyon of stupidity. Her idiocy is breathtakingly deep and wide." John Carpenter (but not the film director)

[Nearly Sane]

All ok, we have worldbeating experts, with worldbeating pay on our worldbeating system


https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-test-and-trace-consultants-paid-equivalent-of-1-5m-salary-12104028

[jeremyp]

'Lockdown does NOT save lives. It postpones deaths.

You could say that about anything that saves lives.

You end up with the same number of deaths. You just prolong the crisis. Can this country stop being anti-science? We may as well be examining animal entrails'.

I thought the science was saying we need lock downs.

The 'journalist' Allison Pearson.

Hmmm

[jeremyp]

All ok, we have worldbeating experts, with worldbeating pay on our worldbeating system


https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-test-and-trace-consultants-paid-equivalent-of-1-5m-salary-12104028

Back in 2000 when I was a Sendmail consultant, I was charged out at £1,500 per day. That's equivalent to £2,500 today or - based on 200 working days in the year - £500k per year. Of course, I only saw a fraction of that but the bottom end of what those consultants are charging is not atypical for certain highly sought after skills.

[Aruntraveller]

Back in 2000 when I was a Sendmail consultant, I was charged out at £1,500 per day. That's equivalent to £2,500 today or - based on 200 working days in the year - £500k per year. Of course, I only saw a fraction of that but the bottom end of what those consultants are charging is not atypical for certain highly sought after skills.

Which might be ok if we saw any evidence of these "highly sought after skills"

[jeremyp]

Which might be ok if we saw any evidence of these "highly sought after skills"

The fact that they charge so much and people will pay seems like some evidence.

[ProfessorDavey]

The fact that they charge so much and people will pay seems like some evidence.

Jeremy - any response to my comments in reply 3238, specifically:

Why you think I have no idea how hard it is to make changes in government organisations.

And what do you classify as a government organisation - is the NHS one, how about schools, Universities, the military?

[Aruntraveller]

The fact that they charge so much and people will pay seems like some evidence.

No. Evidence would be a functioning and efficient test, track and trace system.