Coronavirus

[Aruntraveller]

I'm more concerned that this sudden drop in cases might be an artefact of the testing process, or worse, a sign of deliberate manipulation.

Or maybe that people are deleting the app and not getting tested?

[ProfessorDavey]

Or maybe that people are deleting the app and not getting tested?

There has been a slight reduction in testing numbers, but nothing like the reduction in case numbers:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

Compare left and right graphs.

Deleting the app isn't going to affect testing number - rather it will decrease the 'ping-demic'. It think the reduction in testing is because schools have broken up and schools have been testing twice per week and that expectation isn't the same now the school holidays are here.

[Nearly Sane]

Not a great look from Sturgeon


https://archive.is/nTiK5

[Nearly Sane]

Cstch covid for frrrreeeeeeedddddddooooommmmm!



https://www.indy100.com/politics/neil-oliver-gb-news-covid-monologue-b1895098

[jeremyp]

Cstch covid for frrrreeeeeeedddddddooooommmmm!



https://www.indy100.com/politics/neil-oliver-gb-news-covid-monologue-b1895098

Is he aware that, even if you don’t die from COVID-19, the effects can still be long term?

[SteveH]

Cstch covid for frrrreeeeeeedddddddooooommmmm!



https://www.indy100.com/politics/neil-oliver-gb-news-covid-monologue-b1895098

And to think I used to like that right-wing dickhead when he presented 'Coast'!

[Anchorman]

And to think I used to like that right-wing dickhead when he presented 'Coast'!

   
He should have stuck with archaeology.

[ProfessorDavey]

Yet more incompetence:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58080232

While I agree with this, why on earth didn't they sort it out earlier, rather than announce it a couple of weeks into the summer holidays meaning it is going to be pretty well impossible to action until Sept.

Schools are highly experienced at organising themselves as vaccine centres, so had they sorted this earlier the 16 and 17 year-olds (that chose to) could have had their first jab in mid July in school with the second jab second week in Sept to be double jabbed (again in school) by the middle of next month. Announcing it now means it is likely they won't be double jabbed until November.

[SteveH]

Just got my official vaccination confirmation. Not having a smartphone, I needed it in paper form, so I ordered one online, and here it is.
https://flic.kr/p/2mfsY9U

[ad_orientem]

Don't know what everyone else here thinks but I'm not comfortable with this vaccine passport thing. I believe that as many people as possible should be vaccinated. I have. The authorities need to encourage people to be vaccinated because the medical evidence is in its favour. I don't agree with excluding people from society though, even if they are stupid enough not to want to take it.

[Spud]

Vaccine passports aren't a good idea in my opinion, but telling people they will miss the fun and offering shopping vouchers and a chance to win £5k if you have the jab is bribery. Would you respect your doctor if he offered you money to receive his treatment?

[Aruntraveller]

I think vaccine passports have problems around issues like how long are they valid due to waning immunity, but in principle I have no objection. Indeed, if some oik can't be bothered to protect him or herself why should the rest of us be put at risk by allowing them in to the same space as responsible people.*

*  With the obvious exemptions being allowed.

[SteveH]

I'm all for vaccine passports, with exemptions for those with a medical reason not to be vaccinated, and was arguing for them when vaccines first appeared.

[Nearly Sane]

I'm all for vaccine passports, with exemptions for those with a medical reason not to be vaccinated, and was arguing for them when vaccines first appeared.

what's your definition of a medical reason? How about that some vaccines may be more dangerous for ypung people than not having it? Hoe about that there has not been detailed testing on pregnant women? 

[Aruntraveller]

Report from New Scientist on one of the issues affecting young people:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocarditis-is-more-common-after-covid-19-infection-than-vaccination/?

[ProfessorDavey]

How about that some vaccines may be more dangerous for ypung people than not having it?

If that is the case they wouldn't be approved for use by the relevant regulatory body.

For approval to be given for use the benefits of the vaccine must outweigh any risks.

So from the Dr June Raine, MHRA Chief Executive:

'We have carefully reviewed clinical trial data in children aged 12 to 15 years and have concluded that the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is safe and effective in this age group and that the benefits of this vaccine outweigh any risk.'

And Professor Sir Munir Pirmohamed, Chair of the Commission on Human Medicines:
"We have been very careful to take into consideration the younger age group and the benefits of this population being vaccinated against any potential risk of side effects. There has been a thorough assessment and review of this data which was also looked at specifically by the CHM’s Paediatric Medicines Expert Advisory Group who are scientific experts within this age group, as well as the CHM’s COVID-19 Vaccines Benefit Risk Expert Working Group.

We have concluded that based on the data we have seen on the quality, effectiveness and safety of the vaccine, its benefits do outweigh any risk."

[Udayana]

Don't know what everyone else here thinks but I'm not comfortable with this vaccine passport thing. I believe that as many people as possible should be vaccinated. I have. The authorities need to encourage people to be vaccinated because the medical evidence is in its favour. I don't agree with excluding people from society though, even if they are stupid enough not to want to take it.

I agree in principle.

... However, as time has passed, in practice I feel that most of those constantly arguing for "freedom" and "liberty", refusing to wear masks and carrying on as normal are dickheads who really couldn't care less about who gets ill or how badly, and might even consider the pensioner death toll as a good thing.

So... fuck them, lets have vaccine passports for any and all activities, no jobs without jabs and ID cards showing vaccination status, medical conditions and exemptions.
     

[Spud]

I think vaccine passports have problems around issues like how long are they valid due to waning immunity, but in principle I have no objection. Indeed, if some oik can't be bothered to protect him or herself why should the rest of us be put at risk by allowing them in to the same space as responsible people.*

*  With the obvious exemptions being allowed.

This study suggests that vaccination, and hence vaccine passports, do not guarantee that someone can't be infected or infect someone else.
The vaccine at present protects from serious disease, but not infection. The passport might tell us that its owner is less likely to need hospitalization.

[Spud]

By reducing severity of symptoms the vaccine may reduce transmission (sg through coughing). But in crowded spaces the risk of transmission through breathing will go up. So it's no use letting people into crowded venues simply on the condition of them having had the vaccine. They also need to have had a recent negative test.

[Aruntraveller]

This study suggests that vaccination, and hence vaccine passports, do not guarantee that someone can't be infected or infect someone else.
The vaccine at present protects from serious disease, but not infection. The passport might tell us that its owner is less likely to need hospitalization.

This has been known for some time, as has the fact that you are less likely to pass the virus on and the length of time you stay infectious is shorter. As with all vaccines they are not 100% effective. Also if you are double vaccinated you are three times less likely to become infected.

Report here: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/

The more people who are vaccinated the safer we all are. A fact that the immunologist in your link, Manuel Santos Rosa, acknowledges as he is pushing for vaccination of children. (Report here: https://www.portugalresident.com/portuguese-immunologist-says-it-is-more-and-more-important-that-children-and-young-people-are-vaccinated/ ) 

[Spud]

The more people who are vaccinated the safer we all are.

This totally ignores that most people, especially the young, can eliminate the virus before they develop antibodies.

[ProfessorDavey]

This totally ignores that most people, especially the young, can eliminate the virus before they develop antibodies.

Err - how would they eliminate the virus without developing antibodies which is a key element of the immune response that is responsible for ... err ... eliminating the virus.

[Aruntraveller]

This totally ignores that most people, especially the young, can eliminate the virus before they develop antibodies.

See my amended post. The immunologist you quoted to support your post says children should be vaccinated. Take it up with him if you are certain you know more about the subject than he does.

[Udayana]

This totally ignores that most people, especially the young, can eliminate the virus before they develop antibodies.

How have you found that they had the virus if they have no antibodies?

[Spud]

Err - how would they eliminate the virus without developing antibodies which is a key element of the immune response that is responsible for ... err ... eliminating the virus.

Sorry - I should have clarified this. People have "natural antibodies", antibodies that are not developed in response to Covid-19, which consist of IgM, IgG and I think IgA. These are not specific for particular viruses, but can bind to and eliminate them. People also have Natural Killer cells, a class of lymphocyte that destroys infected cells. These are the mechanisms by which people recover from infection within a week or two, before covid-soecific antibodies develop.