Coronavirus

[Nearly Sane]

From the BBC's rolling news



'The form the French must fill in to justify leaving home
Under the new French decree to stay at home, coming into effect shortly at 12:00 local time (11:00 GMT) on Tuesday, citizens will need to justify their movements.
A form has been created which they should carry when out and about, and on which the reasons for travel can be ticked. They are:
Commuting to work where working at home is not possible
Trips to authorised shops for necessities
Travel for health reasons
Travel for urgent family reasons, to help the vulnerable or for childcare
Brief trips close to home for exercise on an individual basis and/or to exercise pets
The form can be downloaded from this interior ministry site.
Reasons can also be set out on plain paper, but it will be regarded as a sworn statement.
Interior Minister Christophe Castaner said the fine for transgressors would soon be set at €135 ($150; £123).
Le Monde reports that some 100,000 civil servants and soldiers will be deployed nationwide to carry out checks.'

[Nearly Sane]

And also


'Iran temporarily releases 85,000 prisoners
The number of prisoners released temporarily in Iran as the country grapples with the coronavirus outbreak has now reached 85,000, a judiciary spokesman said.
“So far, some 85,000 prisoners have been released ... Also in the jails we have taken precautionary measures to confront the outbreak,” Gholamhossein Esmaili told the Reuters news agency.
Political prisoners were among those freed.
He did not say when those released would have to return to prison.
A total of 853 people have died and 14,991 have been confirmed infected across the country.'

[SteveH]

I'm starting to think that some of this is a bit OTT, and likely to induce panic, when the great majority of cases are mild and quickly recovered from.

[Roses]

The Laura Ashley chain is blaming its collapse on the coronavirus. Carphone Warehouse is also closing, but its closure isn't caused by the virus, although it probably hasn't helped.   

[SteveH]

I hope that, when a vaccine is developed, they won't spend too long testing it before releasing it. The current legally required tests for new drugs before release in most Western countries are excessive, and actually cost lives, because people who could be saved die while waiting for it to become available. Hopefully, they'll cutail that (not completely abandon it, of course) in this case.

[Walter]

I'm beginning to think my lifestyle has become ideally suited to the current situation ?

[Udayana]

...
Reasons can also be set out on plain paper, but it will be regarded as a sworn statement.
Interior Minister Christophe Castaner said the fine for transgressors would soon be set at €135 ($150; £123).
Le Monde reports that some 100,000 civil servants and soldiers will be deployed nationwide to carry out checks.'

Seems so 20th Century, and they have to deploy people to check ... increasing contact risks.

Essentially the problem is one of information: knowing who is vulnerable and where they are and knowing who is infected (and then recovered) and where they are. Testing can be provided (as soon as there is capacity) for everyone to check their status if needed. But then you need to make sure that when people move about the vulnerable don't come in contact with the infected. Need to stop both groups moving about. 

Brainstorming, If everyone stopped moving about and having contact for two weeks we would know exactly where all the live cases were,  or rather had been, and there would be no more transmission.
 
ie. Once locked down, you need to get back to strict testing and contact tracing: containment and elimination. Need to lock down well before the health service is overwhelmed as in Korea, Singapore, not after as in China, Italy.
 

[Roses]

I hope that, when a vaccine is developed, they won't spend too long testing it before releasing it. The current legally required tests for new drugs before release in most Western countries are excessive, and actually cost lives, because people who could be saved die while waiting for it to become available. Hopefully, they'll cutail that (not completely abandon it, of course) in this case.

The US is already testing a vaccine. I believe a number of countries have created their versions of a vaccine and are no doubt testing them too. I think the tests have to be stringent, a vaccine is no good if it kills rather than cures.

[SteveH]

The US is already testing a vaccine. I believe a number of countries have created their versions of a vaccine and are no doubt testing them too. I think the tests have to be stringent, a vaccine is no good if it kills rather than cures.

Yes - but not over-stringent.

[Roses]

Yes - but not over-stringent.

It depends what you mean by over-stringent.

[SteveH]

It depends what you mean by over-stringent.

What a pointless comment! Are you arguing for the sake of it? Again?

[Nearly Sane]

Ffs!

https://www.thedailybeast.com/boris-johnson-made-operation-last-gasp-joke-about-urgent-respirator-making-project-says-report

[Nearly Sane]

Seems so 20th Century, and they have to deploy people to check ... increasing contact risks.

Essentially the problem is one of information: knowing who is vulnerable and where they are and knowing who is infected (and then recovered) and where they are. Testing can be provided (as soon as there is capacity) for everyone to check their status if needed. But then you need to make sure that when people move about the vulnerable don't come in contact with the infected. Need to stop both groups moving about. 

Brainstorming, If everyone stopped moving about and having contact for two weeks we would know exactly where all the live cases were,  or rather had been, and there would be no more transmission.
 
ie. Once locked down, you need to get back to strict testing and contact tracing: containment and elimination. Need to lock down well before the health service is overwhelmed as in Korea, Singapore, not after as in China, Italy.
 

How do you stop everyone moving about though? Hospitals, food delivery needs to continue.

[Walter]

Ffs!

https://www.thedailybeast.com/boris-johnson-made-operation-last-gasp-joke-about-urgent-respirator-making-project-says-report

saney ,
Briefly , what does it say . I can't open it !

[Nearly Sane]

I hope that, when a vaccine is developed, they won't spend too long testing it before releasing it. The current legally required tests for new drugs before release in most Western countries are excessive, and actually cost lives, because people who could be saved die while waiting for it to become available. Hopefully, they'll cutail that (not completely abandon it, of course) in this case.

  I suppose one might argue that the danger of litigation has lead to over stringency but there have been enough issues with drugs not sufficiently tested that I think I need a bit more persuading than some random poster on a message board who has no relevant qualifications in the subject asserting that the testing regs are excessive.

[Nearly Sane]

saney ,
Briefly , what does it say . I can't open it !

Johnson was in a meeting with 60 manufacturers to discuss production of respirators and referred to it  as 'Operation Last Gasp'

[SusanDoris]

My main consideration is that if I became ill, then it is not fair on my family who do not live just round the corner. Keeping fit is most important but there are several hazards: I can't walk as briskly as I used to, although walking the amount I do is better than sitting. I can't manage rain or strong wind because it is too difficult to see enough of where I am or am going. I have to slow down when the sun is very  bright and often it is too bright to cope with. Therefore, going to the gym is the solution. I shall not be silly, though, and go when the situation gets worse. I have one of those stretch bands, a shortish one, and a couple of not too heavy dumbbells, plus a fitness ball, and of course there is always the floor on which to exercise! As for CV, I step up and down the bottom stair!

I've put the shopping away. It is interesting that people can see different versions of the things I usually choose, so some of the things my young friend has brought are interestingly and tastily different!

[Walter]

Johnson was in a meeting with 60 manufacturers to discuss production of respirators and referred to it  as 'Operation Last Gasp'

Now that IS funny .😂😱

[Nearly Sane]

Now that IS funny .😂😱

If you had said it, I would agree but it isn't when the PM is saying it. He wants to be Churchill, but is rather Benny Hill.

[SteveH]

Ffs!

https://www.thedailybeast.com/boris-johnson-made-operation-last-gasp-joke-about-urgent-respirator-making-project-says-report

Gallows humour has its place, but probably not a good idea from the PM.

Pub landlords and restaurateurs are understandably cross with the government for recommending that people avoid them, but not ordering them to close: if they had to close, they could claim financial compensation, but as it is, they're getting clobbered.

[SteveH]

  I suppose one might argue that the danger of litigation has lead to over stringency but there have been enough issues with drugs not sufficiently tested that I think I need a bit more persuading than some random poster on a message board who has no relevant qualifications in the subject asserting that the testing regs are excessive.

Fair point, but I read it in an opinion piece in the 'Guardian' some years ago, so it must be true. (LR - that's a joke.)

[Nearly Sane]

Gallows humour has its place, but probably not a good idea from the PM.

Pub landlords and restaurateurs are understandably cross with the government for recommending that people avoid them, but not ordering them to close: if they had to close, they could claim financial compensation, but as it is, they're getting clobbered.

It's definitely not a good idea from the PM.


And yes, I agree on the pubs and restaurants question though the Association of British Insurers are apparently arguing that even if the govt does tell them to shut , the cover won't apply.

[Walter]

If you had said it, I would agree but it isn't when the PM is saying it. He wants to be Churchill, but is rather Benny Hill.

yep , I would have quite proud of that one but you could be right 😎

[SteveH]

And yes, I agree on the pubs and restaurants question though the Association of British Insurers are apparently arguing that even if the govt does tell them to shut , the cover won't apply.

Perhaps, but they could claim compensation from the government, presumably (which may be why the government isn't ordering them to shut, the cynic in me suggests).

[Nearly Sane]

Fair point, but I read it in an opinion piece in the 'Guardian' some years ago, so it must be true. (LR - that's a joke.)

The problem is that reducing the time means any longer term effects are not seen. There is a balance to be achieved but not easy to establish. Experimental treatments in those cases which are rare can I think be fast tracked effectively at the choice of those involved but this is about using a drug widely enough to mimic herd immunity, so I think that needs a lot of care.