Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 245893 times)

ad_orientem

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #225 on: March 12, 2020, 07:50:11 PM »
In parliament a debate is going on and all parties agree that the government should take emergency powers should the need arise in the coming days.

Even though there has been a sharp rise in the confirmed cases over here, it seems to me that it is because the authorities have been extremely efficient in working out chains of infection and chasing down those who have been exposed. Obviously easier in a country with a relatively smaller population and density.
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Aruntraveller

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #226 on: March 12, 2020, 08:46:05 PM »
So isolating ourselves when we show symptoms is not going to have the slowing effect of spread hoped for:

 https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/mar/12/coronavirus-most-infections-spread-by-people-yet-to-show-symptoms-scientists?

« Last Edit: March 12, 2020, 08:48:10 PM by Trentvoyager »
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

jakswan

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #227 on: March 12, 2020, 08:58:51 PM »
Preventing spread in the hope of a cure is a big gamble. Currently there are three outcomes

1. Everyone gets it in the next two monthes and the NHS won't cope
2. Slow down the spread so the spread is steady but NHS is better able to cope.
3. Shut everything down hope that you have a cure, if not Winter 2021 will get the 2nd wave and NHS won't cope.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire

ad_orientem

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #228 on: March 12, 2020, 09:06:20 PM »
Preventing spread in the hope of a cure is a big gamble. Currently there are three outcomes

1. Everyone gets it in the next two monthes and the NHS won't cope
2. Slow down the spread so the spread is steady but NHS is better able to cope.
3. Shut everything down hope that you have a cure, if not Winter 2021 will get the 2nd wave and NHS won't cope.

With regards number 3, we should have a vaccine for it by then. Next summer is the estimate.
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ad_orientem

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #229 on: March 12, 2020, 09:45:35 PM »
Apparently, buying shit loads of bog roll is the best fight against coronavirus, at least according to sales.
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #230 on: March 13, 2020, 08:35:11 AM »
Preventing spread in the hope of a cure is a big gamble. Currently there are three outcomes

1. Everyone gets it in the next two monthes and the NHS won't cope
2. Slow down the spread so the spread is steady but NHS is better able to cope.
3. Shut everything down hope that you have a cure, if not Winter 2021 will get the 2nd wave and NHS won't cope.

I think that the "prime minister*" has a secret agenda following closely on the budget.

The UK has a large number of elderly pensioners (a category which includes me) whose pensions are a considerable cost to the state. Adopt a strategy which will maximise the likelihood their imminent deaths and the benefit to the Treasury will be such that the expensive projects outlined in the Budget Speech will be affordable. I do hope that I can survive long enough to see Alexander B deP Johnson fulfill his promise and lay down before the bulldozers working on the third runway at Heathrow.

* Cummings or Johnson - whichever is appropriate.
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Udayana

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #231 on: March 13, 2020, 08:56:13 AM »

Just to propagate this viral quote:

Quote
Sir Richard Wharton : In stage one we say nothing is going to happen.

Sir Humphrey Appleby : Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.

Sir Richard Wharton : In stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we *can* do.

Sir Humphrey Appleby : Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

wigginhall

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #232 on: March 13, 2020, 09:32:05 AM »
I had a macabre laugh when I saw those lists of measures being taken by various countries, and the UK looks like an outlier,  in not closing schools, sports events, etc.  Somebody said we're a control group, wot a laaf.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #233 on: March 13, 2020, 10:35:29 AM »
UEFA postpone all matches - I presume this will happen on all major football across Europe shortly

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51870540

SteveH

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #234 on: March 13, 2020, 11:40:15 AM »
I had a macabre laugh when I saw those lists of measures being taken by various countries, and the UK looks like an outlier,  in not closing schools, sports events, etc.  Somebody said we're a control group, wot a laaf.
Belgium hasn't closed its schools yet, either.
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Roses

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #235 on: March 13, 2020, 11:48:30 AM »
Belgium hasn't closed its schools yet, either.

They are closing them on Monday.
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jakswan

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #236 on: March 13, 2020, 12:38:20 PM »
I think that the "prime minister*" has a secret agenda following closely on the budget.

The agenda he is following is an agenda that he can rationally argue will cause the least harm.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire

wigginhall

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #237 on: March 13, 2020, 12:46:48 PM »
But isn't Boris downplaying the effects of herd immunity?   Thus, if 50 million are infected, that's 500, 000 deaths, assuming 1% rate.  Of course, it may not reach 50 million.

Also a question of beds, plus ventilator.   Irish govt is looking at sports halls, etc.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 12:54:03 PM by wigginhall »
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SteveH

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #238 on: March 13, 2020, 12:49:37 PM »
I have a pet termite. His name is Clint. Clint eats wood.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #239 on: March 13, 2020, 01:48:37 PM »
UEFA postpone all matches - I presume this will happen on all major football across Europe shortly

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51870540

And that's all UK major football cancelled

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51867989
« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 01:51:23 PM by Nearly Sane »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #240 on: March 13, 2020, 01:49:16 PM »
And advice from my employers now gone to wfh from Monday if possible

Roses

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #241 on: March 13, 2020, 01:59:01 PM »
I think working from home is sensible, if a person is able to do so.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #242 on: March 13, 2020, 02:15:29 PM »
I think working from home is sensible, if a person is able to do so.
The problem is obviously for those who can't , many of whom are on the worst contracts and have the least protections

Nearly Sane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #243 on: March 13, 2020, 02:30:37 PM »
« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 03:56:51 PM by Nearly Sane »

Nearly Sane

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Udayana

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #245 on: March 13, 2020, 02:36:29 PM »
But isn't Boris downplaying the effects of herd immunity?   Thus, if 50 million are infected, that's 500, 000 deaths, assuming 1% rate.  Of course, it may not reach 50 million.

Also a question of beds, plus ventilator.   Irish govt is looking at sports halls, etc.

I can't reconcile the different statements made.

Vallance said (this morning):

“Our aim is to try and reduce the peak, broaden the peak, not suppress it completely; also, because the vast majority of people get a mild illness, to build up some kind of herd immunity so more people are immune to this disease and we reduce the transmission, at the same time we protect those who are most vulnerable to it. Those are the key things we need to do.”

Some immunity will build up in the population anyway, as a large proportion of infected people recover. But to have herd immunity protecting the population you need between 30m and 50m (depending on infection rates) to have become immune. As you say this would also mean a huge number of deaths unless there is some way to isolate the vulnerable from infection.

Similarly, to flatten the peak by allowing infection to spread (faster than it would in a lock down) only makes sense if you want to flatten the spread by bringing forward some proportion of critical cases to use spare capacity you have now - and might not have later.

It seems to me that if they want people to have confidence in their plans they need to reveal more details of the models, inputs and outputs they are using.

btw: An article that might indicate where the idea of using herd immunity as part of the plan came from here:

 https://www.wired.co.uk/article/herd-immunity-uk-coronavirus-robert-peston

In the meantime I am glad that sports authorities and other event organizers and employers are making sensible decisions to help support social distancing off their own bat.
 
« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 03:30:22 PM by Udayana »
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Nearly Sane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #246 on: March 13, 2020, 02:37:28 PM »

Walter

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #247 on: March 13, 2020, 02:57:38 PM »
I can't be bothered to read all the previous posts but my guess is it's a fabulous opportunity for the government to "cull" the old, sick and bewildered

Oi oi , stay lucky 😝

wigginhall

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #248 on: March 13, 2020, 03:03:55 PM »
Udayana, maybe they don't want to incite fear?   Saying that X number will die is not cheery, and Boris strives to be cheery.
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Roses

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #249 on: March 13, 2020, 03:05:18 PM »
There are now 798 cases in the UK.
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."