Coronavirus

[SteveH]

Matt Hancock on the Government's response: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/14/must-do-everything-power-protect-lives/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_iosshare_At9w8jYPvkKQ&fbclid=IwAR1MrFMm993qU-k8x-Q207oaoMRSxTJRwquTEAhQdtQ2TNW9LEdVOlFjStk
As I wrote in reply to the friend's FB post which gave the link:

"We must all do everything in our power to protect lives" - well, duh! In other news, the Vatican has confirmed that Pope Francis remains a Catholic. Hoggart's law, invented by the late Simon, applies: if the opposite of a politician's statement is obvious nonsense, the statement wasn't worth making.
Glad, though, that he affirms that "herd immunity" is not part of the government's strategy. There's been a lot of silly talk about it, but the only way it could be achieved would be for the vast majority of the population to get Covid-19, with tens or hundreds of thousands of deaths, which is obviously what we want to avoid, and would represent a disastrous failure. We hear of herd immunity in relation to measles, but that's achieved by immunisation, and is threatened by the anti-vax idiots. There is no vaccine for Covid-19 yet, and not likely to be for some time, as I understand it.

So let's have no more nonsense about "herd immunity" as a possible solution.

[Roses]

Trump has supposedly tested negative for the virus, but as lies are second to that man I wonder if it is true?

[Roses]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51895873

Within weeks the over 70s are likely to be required to self-isolate in their own homes, without visitors, essential supplies being delivered to their doorsteps. I am really looking forward to that. 

[SteveH]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51895873

Within weeks the over 70s are likely to be required to self-isolate in their own homes, without visitors, essential supplies being delivered to their doorsteps. I am really looking forward to that. 

Don't worry - you're not over 70.

[Roses]

Don't worry - you're not over 70.

I wish

[Nearly Sane]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51895873

Within weeks the over 70s are likely to be required to self-isolate in their own homes, without visitors, essential supplies being delivered to their doorsteps. I am really looking forward to that. 

Think this is likely sometime in the next few days rather than weeks.

[wigginhall]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51895873

Within weeks the over 70s are likely to be required to self-isolate in their own homes, without visitors, essential supplies being delivered to their doorsteps. I am really looking forward to that. 

A nightmare.   We have an allotment, and a house in Norfolk.   So we just give them up?

[ekim]

Think this is likely sometime in the next few days rather than weeks.

Time to panic buy then.

[Nearly Sane]

Went to visit my mother yesterday as I suspected that the self isolation instructions for the elderly are going to be announced. One of the very few times,  I have not given  her a kiss and a hug, we elbow bumped. The train that I normally catch to go and see her seemed busier than usual, as did the centre of my city, though I suspect some were approaching it in  fin de siècle manner and having a last out before we are all stuck mainly inside.


It seems odd that this has happened both slow and fast, but I am worried that we seem unprepared for what is a highly predictable scenario that must have been modelled thousands and thousands of times.

One worry is that we still seen to be completely disunited, and that the response has had very little coordination. The decisions to shut down sports events has been left to individual bodies, and the decisions about borders in the EU taken by the individual countries with no obvious coordination.

Along the road from me, a lovely little bakery opened yesterday, for the first time, and seems to have done great trade. I worry that it  will end up shutting sometime soon because of the virus and never reopen.

In addition we have people thinking that the UK govt is planning some cull of the elderly as a plot, and individuals building mountains of loo roll and hand gel. I would like to see much more movement to a UK govt of national unity, and a suspension of such distractions as Brexit or indeed a leadership contest. I suspect our view if how the UK pulled together during WW2 is a tad rosy; there were profiteers then, but it feels more zombie apocalypse. The UK govt needs to start avoiding anonymous briefings and be much clearer in statements. The one last week where we were meant to be 4 weeks behind Italy when Italy wasn't even 4 weeks into the crisis undermines the need for the govt to be believed.

Given the timings I expect us to have effective lock down by Friday at latest, and to be in the sane place as Italy by next Sunday. Everyone on here seems like a decent person, so I expect where possible you will be looking out for friends, relatives and neighbours. I would be interested in knowing what actions you take that you feel work so that we can use best practice in the next few weeks.

In the immortal words of Sgt Phil Esterhaus 'Let's be careful out there'

[jeremyp]

so your take is that the UK govt are following expert instruction, but France isn't? How can you tell the difference?

The French are panicking. They've shut down everything. Either most people will be in total poverty in a few months or they will be ignoring the government.

[jeremyp]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51895873

Within weeks the over 70s are likely to be required to self-isolate in their own homes, without visitors, essential supplies being delivered to their doorsteps. I am really looking forward to that. 

I know two over 70 people who will ignore the self isolation thing. They are both pretty fit and healthy for their age and they can't see any reason why they should make themselves miserable for their own protection.

[Nearly Sane]

The French are panicking. They've shut down everything. Either most people will be in total poverty in a few months or they will be ignoring the government.

Meanwhile the UK govt are making policy announcements via anonymous sources in Robert Peston's blog. How can you be sure that you thinking the UK govt are being sensible and following expert advice and the French aren't is nog just because the UK govt are doing what you think is correct?

[Nearly Sane]

I doubt whether the Salmond trial will avoid be cancelled.

[Walter]

I know two over 70 people who will ignore the self isolation thing. They are both pretty fit and healthy for their age and they can't see any reason why they should make themselves miserable for their own protection.

I'm going out ... I may be some time !

[ad_orientem]

Went into town last night to the pub and it was like a bloody ghost town.

[jakswan]

So let's have no more nonsense about "herd immunity" as a possible solution.

It is an outcome not a solution.

First epidemic then endemic.

[jeremyp]

Meanwhile the UK govt are making policy announcements via anonymous sources in Robert Peston's blog.

No they are not.

How can you be sure that you thinking the UK govt are being sensible and following expert advice and the French aren't is nog just because the UK govt are doing what you think is correct?

Why are you so sure that the British are doing the wrong thing? Are you sure it's not just because you despise the government so much you refuse to believe they are capable of doing anything right?

Look, I am not sure if Britain's approach is the best way of containing the virus, but my outlook is not focused just on the virus. I'm looking at the effect on the World. If the French, Spanish and Italian measures carry on for more than a few weeks, their economies will be destroyed. That, in itself, will kill people and otherwise destroy the lives of many others.

This crisis isn't just about stopping the virus, it's about having a world worth living in after it's over.

[jeremyp]

It is an outcome not a solution.

First epidemic then endemic.

I'm not convinced that herd immunity would work anyway. Nobody has yet said that you can't catch it more than once. After all, a vast proportion of the population has caught flu, and there's no herd immunity to that.

[Nearly Sane]

No they are not.

Why are you so sure that the British are doing the wrong thing? Are you sure it's not just because you despise the government so much you refuse to believe they are capable of doing anything right?

Look, I am not sure if Britain's approach is the best way of containing the virus, but my outlook is not focused just on the virus. I'm looking at the effect on the World. If the French, Spanish and Italian measures carry on for more than a few weeks, their economies will be destroyed. That, in itself, will kill people and otherwise destroy the lives of many others.

This crisis isn't just about stopping the virus, it's about having a world worth living in after it's over.

I'm not sure they are doing the wrong thing. I take it you think Peston's reference to a govt source with regards to care homes in his blog is a lie?

[Gordon]

This looks like confirmation of an earlier story that Trump was attempting to secure a potential vaccine being developed in Germany for exclusive USA use.

German government now confirming this report in Welt am Sonntag: Trump administration tried to poach German virologists working on Corona vaccine in Tübingen and offered large sums so it would be exclusive to US https://t.co/DKWnuMHr9p

[Gordon]

Aside from the medical risks and attempts to control the spread of the virus, should restrictions such as requiring the over 70s to isolate be introduced then how could these be effectively enforced?

We, both the population and government, have no practical experience to fall back on which is why effective leadership is important if people are to both police and behave themselves, and especially if it got to a stage where rationing was needed.

[Roses]

This looks like confirmation of an earlier story that Trump was attempting to secure a potential vaccine being developed in Germany for exclusive USA use.

If that is correct, it just goes to underline what a nasty scumbag that man is.  

[Roses]

Aside from the medical risks and attempts to control the spread of the virus, should restrictions such as requiring the over 70s to isolate be introduced then how could these be effectively enforced?

We, both the population and government, have no practical experience to fall back on which is why effective leadership is important if people are to both police and behave themselves, and especially if it got to a stage where rationing was needed.

WW3, but the whole world fighting the virus not each other.

[jeremyp]

I'm not sure they are doing the wrong thing.

So neither of us are sure. \At least that's one thing we can be sure about.

I take it you think Peston's reference to a govt source with regards to care homes in his blog is a lie?

You characterised an anonymous source as "the UK govt are making policy announcements". That's clearly false. When the government makes a policy announcement, it will hold a press conference and issue an official (not anonymous) statement. What Peston got hold of is not a policy announcement but a leak.

It may be that the government really is going to do this and this is a way to soften the blow when it arrives or it may be the government is testing the water to see if it is a measure we will put up with. Or it may be that they heard about the "kill off all the old people who are a burden to the state" conspiracy theory and therefore they have decided to do something to counter that.

[Nearly Sane]

So neither of us are sure. \At least that's one thing we can be sure about.You characterised an anonymous source as "the UK govt are making policy announcements". That's clearly false. When the government makes a policy announcement, it will hold a press conference and issue an official (not anonymous) statement. What Peston got hold of is not a policy announcement but a leak.

It may be that the government really is going to do this and this is a way to soften the blow when it arrives or it may be the government is testing the water to see if it is a measure we will put up with. Or it may be that they heard about the "kill off all the old people who are a burden to the state" conspiracy theory and therefore they have decided to do something to counter that.

Govt sources are not leaks. They are the govt using the anonymous briefing to float ideas. If it was a leak, the govt should/would be trying to find out who. They aren't