Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 247077 times)

Udayana

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #900 on: March 24, 2020, 09:26:31 AM »
Bloody hell! Draconian, or what?
Has anyone on this forum got or had Covid-19, or know anyone who has? I don't: there doesn't seem to be significant absence at work, and certainly no-one's off sick in my bit.

The instructions are basically correct, but AFAICS unenforceable. In addition to which they have been really badly communicated by Johnson and other ministers. The BBC and other newsreaders are doing a better job.

We have a friend who was taken into hospital last week due to a fall, she now has covid-19, but not clear if she was infected before or after being admitted. She also has a nephew with it. Other friends have also reported relatives infected or recovering.
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jeremyp

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #901 on: March 24, 2020, 09:35:15 AM »
Bloody hell! Draconian, or what?
Has anyone on this forum got or had Covid-19, or know anyone who has? I don't: there doesn't seem to be significant absence at work, and certainly no-one's off sick in my bit.
the boyfriend of a colleague of mine at work is a doctor and he works with coronavirus victims.

Independently, another person working for a different company in our building has tested positive.

It’s three weeks since I had contact with my colleague and two weeks since I set foot in my building and I have no symptoms.
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jeremyp

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #902 on: March 24, 2020, 09:36:16 AM »
If you call something Draconian then you are making a claim. Don't make a claim if you aren't willing to back that up. What is your expertise in calling the actions Draconian?
Nobody allowed out of their houses? I’d say that is draconian.
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Udayana

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #903 on: March 24, 2020, 09:36:44 AM »
One thing I don't understand is the difference between the advice given by the WHO, which is to take stringent measures to tackle the virus and also to test, test, test; and the advice given by some national health agencies. In Sweden they still haven't advised the government to close pubs and bars or schools, and public gatherings are only limited to 500 people. As for testing, same here in Finland as well, they've set the bar too high. Have they fallen for that herd immunity stuff? People are going to die!

If, given a case, you can track down and test every contact then you can limit the spread without too many further measures - eventually you are going to this anyway when trying to get back to normal after the peak. The UK started out OK with this but gave up too early after lack or laxity of other measures allowed community spread - then more or less stopped testing.

Don't know what the case is in Sweden.
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jeremyp

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #904 on: March 24, 2020, 09:37:34 AM »
It's draconian because of exponential growth.  This can run out of control, leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths, and people dying in corridors.  Check out the maths.
The UK does not currently have exponential growth on the basis of the last few days figures.
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The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #905 on: March 24, 2020, 09:39:54 AM »
Bloody hell! Draconian, or what?
You are correct - the measures are being described as draconian by the media as well. To be honest I do not think they are draconian enough - I'm in London and still many people not maintaining the 2m distance. 
Quote
Has anyone on this forum got or had Covid-19, or know anyone who has? I don't: there doesn't seem to be significant absence at work, and certainly no-one's off sick in my bit.
I know a 40 year old carer who got it - she is in intensive care - the hospital kept sending her home initially until her temperature really spiked.

But it was a little strange - I  was in A&E in a south London hospital on Sunday for 8 hours   - I had to take my husband's aunt in who was repeatedly vomiting and in severe abdominal pain. She had no temperature, no cough, no diarrhoea and they first directed us to the A&E Green area and then decided to send us to the Red area for people with potential coronavirus. Apparently in the Red area the medical staff were supposed to be wearing masks and protective aprons but actually it was a mix - some were, some weren't. A senior nurse was telling the staff they should be wearing masks, but many did not comply - so it appears that even the NHS staff I saw (including doctors) are not being stringent about rules.

My aunt and I were put in a separate room and were asked to wear masks after about 2 or 3 hours. Nurses were telling the surgical team (doctors) and other nurses that my aunt had a temperature and diarrhoea - even though they took her temperature in A&E and it was normal - and I had to keep correcting the information they were giving each other and the doctors. My aunt was swabbed for Covid-19, they took bloods, did abdominal and chest x-rays, and an ECG in A&E over the 8 hours and she has been admitted with suspected pancreatitis (blood test flagged this). She is scheduled for an ultrasound to figure out exactly what is wrong. She is still vomiting if she has even water orally, still experiencing severe abdominal pain though IV paracetamol every 4 hours plus some morphine takes the edge off for a while and then she is back to shouting in pain. They won't do the ultrasound until the Covid-19 test results are in so the doctors and nurses seem to expect her to put up with the severe pain - the doctor has not changed the pain medication plan.

My mother, who is a doctor, says there is only limited things doctors can do to manage pain as there is a risk of respiratory arrest if the dosages are increased. She said this also applies in palliative care where patients are terminal and in severe pain - the doctors can't do any more about the pain as they risk killing the patient and they may get into trouble.

Anyway, just wanted to comment on the situation I experienced inside an A&E.
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Udayana

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #906 on: March 24, 2020, 09:40:55 AM »
Further official info on business closures.

https://tinyurl.com/ureualq

Bicycle shops are allowed twice over, yay!

Now if only my closest had not folded last year...
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Udayana

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #907 on: March 24, 2020, 10:13:20 AM »
The UK does not currently have exponential growth on the basis of the last few days figures.

Which figures? Are you talking about infections or deaths or hospital admissions?
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Udayana

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #908 on: March 24, 2020, 10:43:27 AM »
The Times headline is "One million Britons ordered to catch the next flight home"

Why?

Here, now is the time to roll out the vans with "GO HOME" signage that May had set up...
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jeremyp

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #909 on: March 24, 2020, 10:43:31 AM »
Which figures? Are you talking about infections or deaths or hospital admissions?
Deaths in the UK for the last 5 days: 43, 41, 33, 56, 48.
New confirmed infections: 680 647 706 1035 665.

The latter figure doesn’t tell us much because we are only testing hospital admissions. It’s like a Chernobyl radiation dosimeter.
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jeremyp

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #910 on: March 24, 2020, 10:45:06 AM »
The Times headline is "One million Britons ordered to catch the next flight home"

Why?
Presumably international flights might stop at any minute.
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ad_orientem

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #911 on: March 24, 2020, 11:05:26 AM »
If, given a case, you can track down and test every contact then you can limit the spread without too many further measures - eventually you are going to this anyway when trying to get back to normal after the peak. The UK started out OK with this but gave up too early after lack or laxity of other measures allowed community spread - then more or less stopped testing.

Don't know what the case is in Sweden.

You're right. Here in Finland we increased daily testing capacity but still only health workers and the vulnerable are being tested; if you don't belong to one of those groups and are showing symptoms you're correctly told to stay at home but you won't be tested. That's crazy. Even worse, health workers who have returned to Finland from infected areas but are not showing any symptoms are being told to go straight to work. Even crazier. If patients die because of that then the people who told them to go to work should be charged with manslaughter.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 11:43:15 AM by ad_orientem »
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #912 on: March 24, 2020, 11:27:00 AM »
All the council waste tips are closed until further notice.
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jeremyp

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #913 on: March 24, 2020, 12:11:08 PM »
Deaths in the UK for the last 5 days: 43, 41, 33, 56, 48.
New confirmed infections: 680 647 706 1035 665.

The latter figure doesn’t tell us much because we are only testing hospital admissions. It’s like a Chernobyl radiation dosimeter.
Yesterday's figures are now in

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

Deaths in the UK for the last 5 days: 41, 33, 56, 48 54
New confirmed infections: 647 706 1035 665 967

On a positive note, deaths in Italy have decreased two days in a row.

ETA so have new confirmed cases in Italy. But that might just mean they are running out of testing kits.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 01:32:56 PM by jeremyp »
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #914 on: March 24, 2020, 01:04:34 PM »
I am doing.
Good

Why do you assume I'm not?
Because your post:

Bloody hell! Draconian, or what?
Has anyone on this forum got or had Covid-19, or know anyone who has? I don't: there doesn't seem to be significant absence at work, and certainly no-one's off sick in my bit.


Implies that you feel everything is being blown out of proportion.

jeremyp

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #915 on: March 24, 2020, 01:31:02 PM »
Good
Because your post:

Bloody hell! Draconian, or what?
Has anyone on this forum got or had Covid-19, or know anyone who has? I don't: there doesn't seem to be significant absence at work, and certainly no-one's off sick in my bit.


Implies that you feel everything is being blown out of proportion.
Doesn't mean he's not complying though.
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The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #916 on: March 24, 2020, 02:01:15 PM »
Good
Because your post:

Bloody hell! Draconian, or what?
Has anyone on this forum got or had Covid-19, or know anyone who has? I don't: there doesn't seem to be significant absence at work, and certainly no-one's off sick in my bit.


Implies that you feel everything is being blown out of proportion.
It actually correctly implies that the measures are beyond what is normal for our society. The new measures are definitely stricter than those we are normally used to. And I didn’t read it as giving any indication of non-compliance. You seem to have made incorrect assumptions by reading things into the post.
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ad_orientem

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #917 on: March 24, 2020, 02:09:18 PM »
So it looks like tomorrow they're going to bring in internal travel restrictions, basically sealing off the county I live in (which also includes Helsinki) from the rest of the country. Will have to see if that means I can get to work, as I work in the neighbouring county. Thankfully I live 40km north of Helsinki and so don't live in a densely populated area. The trains on my work journeys are almost empty.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #918 on: March 24, 2020, 02:32:39 PM »
Doesn't mean he's not complying though.
True - and he has confirmed that he is, which is good.

But it isn't unreasonable to make the inference I did, and even if he is staying at home making comments that appear to diminish the seriousness of the situation is irresponsible as it may encourage others who think similarly to ignore the requirement to stay at home.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #919 on: March 24, 2020, 02:38:58 PM »
It actually correctly implies that the measures are beyond what is normal for our society. The new measures are definitely stricter than those we are normally used to. And I didn’t read it as giving any indication of non-compliance. You seem to have made incorrect assumptions by reading things into the post.
Read what I said - I agreed with him that the actions were draconian, although implied they were necessary. My main gripe was the later part of his post:

Has anyone on this forum got or had Covid-19, or know anyone who has? I don't: there doesn't seem to be significant absence at work, and certainly no-one's off sick in my bit.

This implies that because many people at this stage may not know anyone who is or has been infected that it isn't a big deal. That fundamentally misunderstands the concept of exponential growth in infections of this type, without very serious action.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 04:28:08 PM by ProfessorDavey »

SusanDoris

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #920 on: March 24, 2020, 04:09:00 PM »
I spent some time this morning trying to find out if there was a way I could get my next shopping (needed about end of this week or beginning of next) done by some one sort of official, rather than having to ask the very kind young woman who did it for me last week. The best answer came from one of the staff at the local Surgery who said that, because she is not in any of the vulnerable categories, it would almost certainly be perfectly all right for her to do it for me. That is quite a relief because I really would not want to put anyone in any danger. Being independent and not having any need for a routine of carers - which seems to be the assumption of many on varioius gov/uk sites, because of my age and disability - I would not want to give anyone a responsibility that was unfair.

I do so hope the local high street recovers after this is all over. There is an excellent baker, family butcher, locally owned department store, electrical shop and so on.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #921 on: March 24, 2020, 05:49:55 PM »

Boris Johnson does Ghost Town

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ippy

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #922 on: March 24, 2020, 05:53:13 PM »
Read what I said - I agreed with him that the actions were draconian, although implied they were necessary. My main gripe was the later part of his post:

Has anyone on this forum got or had Covid-19, or know anyone who has? I don't: there doesn't seem to be significant absence at work, and certainly no-one's off sick in my bit.

This implies that because many people at this stage may not know anyone who is or has been infected that it isn't a big deal. That fundamentally misunderstands the concept of exponential growth in infections of this type, without very serious action.

Some very good friends of ours that live directly across the road here they've remarried and it's the chaps daughter and her husband have the Coronavirus they live about five miles away from our small town.

I'm not sure which hospital the husband works at I would imagine that would be the source, we don't really like to ask, if we were speaking face to face I'm sure they would say.

Regards, ippy.

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Gordon

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #924 on: March 24, 2020, 08:34:09 PM »
Could it happen?

I'd be doubtful since I can't see the opposition parties getting involved unless the Brexit transition is extended: then again, this crisis might become so bad that Brexit is put on the back-burner for quite some time.

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