Coronavirus

[Nearly Sane]

Do you even know what "dichotomy" means? It means a contrast between two things which are different. I was comparing two things which are, in the relevant respect, the same.

You really struggle with this sort of basic concept. You added another thing and then portrayed jeremyp as arguing against the second idea. That is the fecking definition of a false dichotomy. Learn to think a bit.
 

[Nearly Sane]

Maybe this is fake news but it seems so easy to believe

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/494305-hhs-secretary-faces-heat-over-naming-aide-with-little-public-health?fbclid=IwAR0rxU2aL-CAGBpQyzrQusIsNFBnq0e0v0wRfKaVwaSdv1PlPTpx1cA8Qrk

[SteveH]

You really struggle with this sort of basic concept. You added another thing and then portrayed jeremyp as arguing against the second idea. That is the fecking definition of a false dichotomy. Learn to think a bit.

Completely wrong from start to finish. You are as ignorant as you are rude, and as rude as you are childish.

[Harrowby Hall]

We are so fortunate that the most powerful and richest country in the world has a chief executive who can think so creatively ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177

And his ability to express complex, innovative and revolutionary ideas in such a simple and direct manner is so refreshing ...

"And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?

"So it'd be interesting to check that."

Pointing to his head, Mr Trump went on: "I'm not a doctor. But I'm, like, a person that has a good you-know-what."

He will, surely, go down in history as one of the great masters of the English language.

[SteveH]

The USA is not the world's richest country by per capita gnp, the only sensible measure; it is either Qatar or Liechtenstein, depending on who's doing the measuring. The USA is 10th, 11th, or 13th.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

[Nearly Sane]

Completely wrong from start to finish. You are as ignorant as you are rude, and as rude as you are childish.

I may well be rude. I am also right. I have put the argument explaining why. You have merely asserted that I am wrong with no explanation.

And as for getting on your high horse about manners, stop being a hypocrite.

[SteveH]

You obviously don't know the meaning of "hypocrite", either.

[Nearly Sane]

You obviously don't know the meaning of "hypocrite", either.

Thank you for succinctly  proving my point.

[Nearly Sane]

The USA is not the world's richest country by per capita gnp, the only sensible measure; it is either Qatar or Liechtenstein, depending on who's doing the measuring. The USA is 10th, 11th, or 13th.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

It's not really a sensible measure when it comes to global power though. The USA as a nation state has because of the size of its overall GDP the ability to spend on armaments that Qatar and Liechtenstein do not. In that sense which was how HH was obviously using it, he was correct.

[Roses]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177

I hope you are all injecting yourselves with disinfectant to keep the virus away? The latest advice from the White House lunatic! Unfortunately the very gullible may believe his 'pearls of wisdom' and do just that, killing themselves in the process!

[SteveH]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177

I hope you are all injecting yourselves with disinfectant to keep the virus away? The latest advice from the White House lunatic! Unfortunately the very gullible may believe his 'pearls of wisdom' and do just that, killing themselves in the process!

You first, Donald...

[jeremyp]

I'm not fooling myself. I just don't see an easy way out currently.

I have heard much talk about shielding the vulnerable lately, which as far as I can see is anyone over 60 or with a condition that makes them more likely to be seriously ill (or die) from the virus.

Even if that is possible and long term it sounds really difficult to sustain, the health service is still going to be at full stretch if the rest of the population is let out of lockdown in some way. The virus really is not that predictable and we would still be suffering huge numbers ill and dying in the lower age groups, with the strain that will put on the NHS - not to mention the add on deaths from the postponement of cancer treatments and all the other diseases we also need to be focusing on.

Having read all that, I think what I am trying to say is that unless we get a vaccine or efficient treatment of the symptoms by medication then we are fucked.

There is another way and that is strict contact tracking. But it basically means when somebody gets ill, everybody they have been in contact with has to be tracked down and tested and isolated if they have the disease. I believe that is how South Korea is managing the disease. It seems to have worked for them, but it would be much more difficult for us unless we reduce the number of cases significantly.

[jeremyp]

Which is a false dichotomy. At no point did jp make a comparison with schools, or suggest they are not important.

Nor did I suggest it is wrong for it to be shut down at the moment.

[jeremyp]

It isn't a dichotomy at all, and I didn't suggest that JP did make that comparison.

To be honest, it did sort of look like you were saying that, but now you've clarified it, I accept that I misinterpreted your post.

I made it, to point out that something can be important in the medium-to-long term, but less so in the short term. Stop picking arguments for the sake of it.

It is all about priorities. Right now the priority is to prevent the NHS from collapsing, because, if it did, it would cost many more lives than it is at the moment. However, once that danger is past, we'll be able to open up other activities. Schools will probably be first but then some parts of the leisure industry can be looked at amongst other things. 

[jeremyp]

We are so fortunate that the most powerful and richest country in the world has a chief executive who can think so creatively ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177

And his ability to express complex, innovative and revolutionary ideas in such a simple and direct manner is so refreshing ...

He will, surely, go down in history as one of the great masters of the English language.

Well I suppose the good news is that, if his supporters follow his advice, his vote in November will collapse. On the other hand, there will be a lot of bodies to clear away.

[SusanDoris]

I'd like to hear one of these people who talk about tracking to explain how they could track people who do not have fancy phones and only have a simple mobile phone which is turned off all the time unless required to phone for a taxi. And have no intention of buying said fancy smart phone - can't use them anyway.

[jeremyp]

The USA is not the world's richest country by per capita gnp, the only sensible measure; it is either Qatar or Liechtenstein, depending on who's doing the measuring. The USA is 10th, 11th, or 13th.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

No, but it is the richest country. Its GDP is significantly higher than the second richest country - China - even though it has about a quarter of the population.

[Nearly Sane]

I'd like to hear one of these people who talk about tracking to explain how they could track people who do not have fancy phones and only have a simple mobile phone which is turned off all the time unless required to phone for a taxi. And have no intention of buying said fancy smart phone - can't use them anyway.

In order to be effective it wouldn't need to have 100% coverage.

[jeremyp]

I'd like to hear one of these people who talk about tracking to explain how they could track people who do not have fancy phones and only have a simple mobile phone which is turned off all the time unless required to phone for a taxi. And have no intention of buying said fancy smart phone - can't use them anyway.

They'd have to do it the old fashioned way by asking you who you'd been in contact with.

[jeremyp]

In order to be effective it wouldn't need to have 100% coverage.

Yes. You don't have to stop all infection, only keep R₀ below 1.

[Nearly Sane]

My friend managed to sit up in a chair for a couple of hours today.

[ad_orientem]

There is another way and that is strict contact tracking. But it basically means when somebody gets ill, everybody they have been in contact with has to be tracked down and tested and isolated if they have the disease. I believe that is how South Korea is managing the disease. It seems to have worked for them, but it would be much more difficult for us unless we reduce the number of cases significantly.

There has been talk that that will be the next strategy for us over here, but it requires a low infection rate and plenty of resources for testing and tracking.  I think for those countries looking for a feasible way out, a so-called hybrib strategy is the way to go: light restrictions and heavy testing/tracking.

[Roses]

One of my daughters has just sent me a photo of a funeral director's office with a banner on the window, which says, 'Thank You NHS'! WHOOPS!

[jeremyp]

One of my daughters has just sent me a photo of a funeral director's office with a banner on the window, which says, 'Thank You NHS'! WHOOPS!

This one.

https://images.app.goo.gl/CfytVNiShCeB9LE9A

[Udayana]

So much for independent scientific advice:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-dominic-cummings-on-secret-scientific-advisory-group-for-covid-19

The prime minister’s chief political adviser, Dominic Cummings, and a data scientist he worked with on the Vote Leave campaign for Brexit are on the secret scientific group advising the government on the coronavirus pandemic, according to a list leaked to the Guardian.

It reveals that both Cummings and Ben Warner were among 23 attendees present at a crucial convening of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) on 23 March, the day Boris Johnson announced a nationwide lockdown in a televised address.

Multiple attendees of Sage told the Guardian that both Cummings and Warner had been taking part in meetings of the group as far back as February.