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Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 248230 times)

Roses

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1775 on: May 05, 2020, 02:34:40 PM »
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ad_orientem

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1776 on: May 05, 2020, 02:55:10 PM »
Quote from: Sriram on May 05, 2020, 01:57:44 PM
Israel also claims a breakthrough. 

https://www.thenational.ae/world/mena/coronavirus-israel-claims-breakthrough-that-can-neutralise-covid-19-1.1014995

There seems to have been some positive news on this front in the last couple of days. Fingers crossed!
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jeremyp

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1777 on: May 05, 2020, 04:49:40 PM »
Quote from: Udayana on May 05, 2020, 10:57:20 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/04/vote-leave-ai-firm-wins-seven-government-contracts-in-18-months

Although I do see mobile technology using a smatphone app as a (partial) solution  or at least an aid in contact tracing, it can't possibly work unless it is trusted. I don't think the NHSX app can be.

What is needed is an open source app based on the decentralized Apple/Google framework, that is interoperable worldwide.   
I think your concerns are unfounded. Here’s how it works

https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/security-behind-nhs-contact-tracing-app
Quote
Also see:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/04/uk-government-using-crisis-to-transfer-nhs-duties-to-private-sector

UK government clearly gaming the pandemic and handing out sweeties to their mates.
 
Clearly a completely different issue.
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SusanDoris

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1778 on: May 05, 2020, 05:23:46 PM »
The very kind and helpful Age Concern lady did my shopping at Tesco again for me this morning.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1779 on: May 05, 2020, 06:54:38 PM »
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Gordon

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1780 on: May 05, 2020, 07:14:00 PM »
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1781 on: May 05, 2020, 08:14:46 PM »
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1782 on: May 06, 2020, 12:05:33 AM »
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Udayana

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1783 on: May 06, 2020, 11:12:27 AM »
Quote from: jeremyp on May 05, 2020, 04:49:40 PM
I think your concerns are unfounded. Here’s how it works

https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/security-behind-nhs-contact-tracing-app
...


I know how it is supposed to work. People will decide for themselves whether to use it or not unless it is made mandatory. I expect that if it doesn't work we will fall back to the German app/system - losing yet more months.
 
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Aruntraveller

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1784 on: May 06, 2020, 11:16:40 AM »
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Roses

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1785 on: May 06, 2020, 11:20:21 AM »
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1786 on: May 06, 2020, 02:14:04 PM »
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Robbie

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1787 on: May 06, 2020, 03:37:59 PM »
So do I.
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Udayana

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1788 on: May 06, 2020, 03:53:31 PM »
Quote from: Nearly Sane on May 06, 2020, 02:14:04 PM
Theresa May's take. Which I actually agree with.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/theresa-may-criticises-world-response-to-coronavirus-pandemic?fbclid=IwAR1mGJ2GEDRKOd9Hg3oGUKurFrTC4jsXYhq_vIfUamwgF0TlooVTD06Ph-8

I agree with her general stance, but there is no international framework which allows for the kind of cooperation she wants at anywhere near the speed that is/was needed.

I thought we were doing well when China reported the disease at the start of Jan and the genome sequence in Feb: But that was based on thinking that it had started in late Dec 19 -  in fact the jump to humans probably occurred in mid or late Oct, signals of a new disease seen in Nov, had hit Wuhan in Dec and been hidden for three weeks.
   
By Feb it was already out and spreading vigorously in Europe.
 
There is no international preparedness in terms of medical facilities, quarantine or lockdown procedures, even border or flight restrictions, and medical equipment supplies etc. It is too late to start putting those in place after a fast spreading pandemic has erupted.

Now, when we could do with WW cooperation on production and supply on PPE, test kits and/or lab equipment and contact tracing apps - nothing in place.

Hopefully someone is working on plans for vaccine or antiviral production and distribution on a global scale - ready for one or more being found and tested OK, but who? Bill Gates?
 
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jeremyp

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1789 on: May 06, 2020, 03:54:32 PM »
Quote from: Udayana on May 06, 2020, 11:12:27 AM
I know how it is supposed to work. People will decide for themselves whether to use it or not unless it is made mandatory. I expect that if it doesn't work we will fall back to the German app/system - losing yet more months.
What makes you think the German app is any better than hours.

Also why wouldn't it work?
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jeremyp

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1790 on: May 06, 2020, 03:56:15 PM »
Quote from: Nearly Sane on May 06, 2020, 02:14:04 PM
Theresa May's take. Which I actually agree with.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/theresa-may-criticises-world-response-to-coronavirus-pandemic?fbclid=IwAR1mGJ2GEDRKOd9Hg3oGUKurFrTC4jsXYhq_vIfUamwgF0TlooVTD06Ph-8
Yes, she's right. I suspect part of the problem is that the post of "leader of the free world" is currently vacant.
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Udayana

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1791 on: May 06, 2020, 04:17:05 PM »
Quote from: jeremyp on May 06, 2020, 03:54:32 PM
What makes you think the German app is any better than hours.

Also why wouldn't it work?

In the the three months prior to UK lockdown, 18m people entered the UK. How many will enter the UK after lockdown is lifted? How will the app work whilst abroad or if in contact with someone who is travelling?

How will it work for people in Ireland/NI?
 
The German app is based on a common Apple/Google framework and can be interoperable with others also built on that.
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Udayana

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1792 on: May 06, 2020, 04:39:46 PM »
Quote from: jeremyp on May 06, 2020, 03:56:15 PM
Yes, she's right. I suspect part of the problem is that the post of "leader of the free world" is currently vacant.

Maybe someone should start thinking how to fix up the world's economic system after Covid  or even what that means?
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ad_orientem

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1793 on: May 06, 2020, 04:48:36 PM »
Quote from: Udayana on May 06, 2020, 04:17:05 PM
In the the three months prior to UK lockdown, 18m people entered the UK. How many will enter the UK after lockdown is lifted? How will the app work whilst abroad or if in contact with someone who is travelling?

How will it work for people in Ireland/NI?
 
The German app is based on a common Apple/Google framework and can be interoperable with others also built on that.

In Finland an app for tracking was expected to be released early June. Now it probably won't be until August. The reason given is privacy issues, which is indeed important, but it seems nothing can ever be fast tracked  over here. Everything has to be done by the slowest route. I bet summer holidays comes into it too, just as this month we start to go into a hybrid strategy of less restrictions and more testing, tracking, quarantine. They reckon the difference could be as much as 30%.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 04:51:12 PM by ad_orientem »
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SusanDoris

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1794 on: May 07, 2020, 11:10:18 AM »
I have just googled BBC news headlines. the first one was about travellers not getting water, electricity or sewage amenities.

Whenever the subject of travellers comes up, I find myself with mixed thoughts.
They have chosen to live as travellers. That's nice for them but unless they contribute with council tax payments, whyshould they expect to have the services?
Yes of course if they did not have water etc then the NHS would have more sick people to care for,
There was one woman referred to who had 18 children (I'm sure I heard that correctly although from her age they were obviously not all her own) and yes there aare problems everywhere about sufficient accommodation for such groups, but these stories jar.

I am not putting this forward for discussion, as I do not have enough information and do not intend to find out, but I would be very interested to hear whether there are a few opinions about this, with particular reference to the present pandemic.
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ad_orientem

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1795 on: May 07, 2020, 05:30:40 PM »
Our country (Finland) is going towards a hybrid strategy, which I cautiously think is the right strategy, but I fear it excludes risk groups. The burden of reopenning the country shouldn't lay on them. Today a body of 46 medical, econmic, and other experts released an open letter to the government telling it to look again at the strategy and opt for one of smothering the virus, something which they say could be done in as little as five weeks, thus openning society to all with minimum restritions and aggressive testing. They say this is the most ethical way. I agree.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 06:22:25 PM by ad_orientem »
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Robbie

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1796 on: May 07, 2020, 05:53:20 PM »
That's very interesting Ad-orientum & I'll read more about it. It's first I've read today about Coronavirus, thought I'd have a day off, slept and cycled with husband for a change (the cycling I mean ;). I don't know what's happening here, wot Boris has said today but nothing new I guess. Will put news on later. Hope you're all keeping well.
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ad_orientem

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1797 on: May 07, 2020, 06:32:41 PM »
Quote from: Robbie on May 07, 2020, 05:53:20 PM
That's very interesting Ad-orientum & I'll read more about it. It's first I've read today about Coronavirus, thought I'd have a day off, slept and cycled with husband for a change (the cycling I mean ;). I don't know what's happening here, wot Boris has said today but nothing new I guess. Will put news on later. Hope you're all keeping well.

Cycling is nice. It's hard to stay away from corona news but things like cycling or running and walking helps. I go walking. I still go to work but I'd happily stay at home all day rather than go to work, to be honest. Unfortunately my finances don't allow for that.
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jeremyp

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1798 on: May 07, 2020, 07:47:36 PM »
Quote from: Udayana on May 06, 2020, 04:17:05 PM
In the the three months prior to UK lockdown, 18m people entered the UK. How many will enter the UK after lockdown is lifted? How will the app work whilst abroad or if in contact with someone who is travelling?

How will it work for people in Ireland/NI?
 
The German app is based on a common Apple/Google framework and can be interoperable with others also built on that.

The Apple/Google app framework still needs a database of ids of people who have tested positive. If each country's app uses its own database, then they will not be interoperable. If there is a global database, fine, but who controls it? Google? Apple? Donald Trump? The WHO in collusion with China?

Furthermore, by recording the first part of your postcode when you register, the NHS app can be used for resource planning. That seems like a huge advantage to me.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1799 on: May 07, 2020, 10:10:47 PM »
Johnson's wiffle waffle yesterday where that his statement on Sunday was implied to be about a relaxation of lockdown led to some stonkingly stupid newspaper headlines, helped by the UK govt having anonymous briefings that covered the same thing. That they appear now to have had to row back on that is just indicative that it wasn't Johnson being ill that caused a vacuum in govt, it was that he is a vacuum in govt.
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