Coronavirus

[Sriram]

Hey guys.. Why don't you quit this habitual cynicism, criticism and scorn.  The world is in crisis. All countries are facing the same problems and I am sure the people in your government are doing their best.

Help along, at least in word and gesture, if not through actual front line efforts.

[Nearly Sane]

Hey guys.. Why don't you quit this habitual cynicism, criticism and scorn.  The world is in crisis. All countries are facing the same problems and I am sure the people in your government are doing their best.

Help along, at least in word and gesture, if not through actual front line efforts.

So those people on the front line who point out that govt statements about PPE were wrong should have just shut up? No. That isn't cynicism.

[Aruntraveller]

Hey guys.. Why don't you quit this habitual cynicism, criticism and scorn.  The world is in crisis. All countries are facing the same problems and I am sure the people in your government are doing their best.

Help along, at least in word and gesture, if not through actual front line efforts.

Nope. If they were doing their best we wouldn't have the highest death rate in Europe.

You really need to stop to think  before you post.

[Nearly Sane]

Nope. If they were doing their best we wouldn't have the highest death rate in Europe.

You really need to stop to think  before you post.

To be fair we might still have that if they were doing their best but were dangerously fucking incompetent.

[Enki]

Nope. If they were doing their best we wouldn't have the highest death rate in Europe.

You really need to stop to think  before you post.

Nothing wrong with criticism, especially if it's constructive, but it pays to get the facts straight first surely. At this point in time the UK doesn't have the highest death rate in Europe. Spain, Italy and particularly Belgium have worse death rate figures than us.

[Aruntraveller]

Nothing wrong with criticism, especially if it's constructive, but it pays to get the facts straight first surely. At this point in time the UK doesn't have the highest death rate in Europe. Spain, Italy and particularly Belgium have worse death rate figures than us.

Apologies my mistake. I was, of course, referring to the "apparent success" of having the highest death toll in Europe. Add to that the utter fiasco over PPE (Ch 4 ran an interesting programme on that particular debacle last night), locking down late, confusing and contradictory messages to the public, lack of testing & tracing and massaging of testing figures.

Take all those things and add on Sririam's "lets all be positive message" and I just feel like reaching into the screen and saying stuff your positivity, our government is killing people what aren't you grasping about our well justified "criticism and scorn".

[Udayana]

The Apple/Google app framework still needs a database of ids of people who have tested positive. If each country's app uses its own database, then they will not be interoperable. If there is a global database, fine, but who controls it? Google? Apple? Donald Trump? The WHO in collusion with China?

In theory the key lists* can be uploaded/downloaded from multiple servers or shared/distributed between servers or countries without risk of loss of any  personal or location data - depends on implementation choices by countries.
   

Furthermore, by recording the first part of your postcode when you register, the NHS app can be used for resource planning. That seems like a huge advantage to me.

Not really, as the system has to operate seamlessly with manual contact tracing and the testing/isolation system. ATM it is is not even clear what the NHSX  app user is supposed to do if they are alerted or have symptoms. The data should be collected from the (fully operational) testing system.

Since we are not able to influence these decisions, all we can do is hope that the app works well enough to help contain and manage outbreaks. If it doesn't then we have a fall back - even NHSX recognise that:

https://www.ft.com/content/d44beb06-5e3e-434f-a3a0-f806ce06576c
(can't tell if this link is pay-walled or not - should be searchable)

- Essentially, they have contracted a Swiss company to investigate how the app could be switched to the Apple-Google spec.

ETA: Better link:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/may/07/uk-may-ditch-nhs-contact-tracing-app-for-apple-and-google-model

The government has left open the prospect of ditching its own contact-tracing app in favour of the “decentralised” model favoured by Apple and Google after it was revealed that a feasibility study into such a change is under way.

After repeated warnings that the UK will be an outlier if it insists on using its own centralised app rather than relying on Google and Apple’s technology, rights groups and MPs said on Thursday that the lack of privacy and data protections could mean that the app would be illegal.

* Note that the lists are keys that have been in proximity to someone having symptoms or confirmed as infected - not ids of those reporting infection.

[Aruntraveller]

For some reason I keep thinking of that Mayor in Jaws, who to save the economy of the town told everyone it was safe to go back into the water.

[ad_orientem]

Scientists over here have developed a vaccine ready for testing by about midsummer.

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finnish-developed_open-source_coronavirus_vaccine_nearly_ready_for_testing/11342151

[Udayana]

For some reason I keep thinking of that Mayor in Jaws, who to save the economy of the town told everyone it was safe to go back into the water.

From some weeks back:

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/mar/13/boris-johnson-coronavirus-hero-mayor-larry-vaughn-jaws

"The PM thinks Amity mayor Larry Vaughn is ‘the real hero of Jaws’. Maybe that’s why he’s emulating his ‘the beaches are open’ politics as coronavirus spreads around the world"

[Udayana]

Scientists over here have developed a vaccine ready for testing by about midsummer.

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finnish-developed_open-source_coronavirus_vaccine_nearly_ready_for_testing/11342151

Sounds good - only human testing can show if it does actually work. 

Would be good to have more technical info given it is open source - especially if it is a nasal-spray vaccine.

[SteveH]

For some reason I keep thinking of that Mayor in Jaws, who to save the economy of the town told everyone it was safe to go back into the water.

"What's Jaws?"
"Thanks - double Laphroaig, no ice."

[jeremyp]

Nope. If they were doing their best we wouldn't have the highest death rate in Europe.

We don't have the highest death rate in Europe.

[jeremyp]

In theory the key lists* can be uploaded/downloaded from multiple servers or shared/distributed between servers or countries without risk of loss of any  personal or location data - depends on implementation choices by countries.

In theory...

There's no personal data in the NHS database either other than the phone's identifier which you need to do the notification and the first part of the post code.
   

Not really, as the system has to operate seamlessly with manual contact tracing and the testing/isolation system.

What makes you think it won't?

ATM it is is not even clear what the NHSX  app user is supposed to do if they are alerted or have symptoms. The data should be collected from the (fully operational) testing system.

Isn't it? You don't know what to do if you find out somebody you were in contact with yesterday is positive or if you start experiencing symptoms?

- Essentially, they have contracted a Swiss company to investigate how the app could be switched to the Apple-Google spec.

ETA: Better link:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/may/07/uk-may-ditch-nhs-contact-tracing-app-for-apple-and-google-model

* Note that the lists are keys that have been in proximity to someone having symptoms or confirmed as infected - not ids of those reporting infection.

All well and good, but none of that means the NHSX app was worthless or insecure.

[jeremyp]

For some reason I keep thinking of that Mayor in Jaws, who to save the economy of the town told everyone it was safe to go back into the water.

Which is precisely the opposite of the British Government's line. Or were you thinking of Donald Trump?

[Roses]

Coronavirus: Russian hospital staff 'working without masks'

As coronavirus spreads more widely in Russia’s provinces, hospitals - often old and ill-equipped - have become infection "hot spots". The number of medical workers getting sick, and dying, is growing.
President Putin admitted that there was a shortage of PPE and ordered an increase in production. But even now, many Russian healthcare staff are scared to complain publicly about having to work without proper protection.

[Aruntraveller]

We don't have the highest death rate in Europe.

Yes - we already covered that.

[Udayana]

Isn't it? You don't know what to do if you find out somebody you were in contact with yesterday is positive or if you start experiencing symptoms?

I would get tested to confirm whether I had been infected and, if so, warn anyone I might have been in contact with. Does the app do that?  Has the government told anyone to do that?

All well and good, but none of that means the NHSX app was worthless or insecure.

Did anyone say it was?

[Roses]

The US has the highest death toll in the world, the UK the second highest and Italy the third highest.

[Nearly Sane]

The US has the highest death rate in the world, the UK the second highest and Italy the third highest.

Death rate is not the same as death toll

[Roses]

Death rate is not the same as death toll

WHOOPS! I have corrected it.

[Udayana]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/08/revealed-uk-scientists-fury-over-attempt-to-censor-covid-19-advice

Government scientific advisers are furious at what they see as an attempt to censor their advice on government proposals during the Covid-19 lockdown by heavily redacting an official report before it was released to the public, the Guardian can reveal.

The report was one of a series of documents published by the Scientific Advisory Group on Emergencies (Sage) this week to mollify growing criticism about the lack of transparency over the advice given to ministers responding to the coronavirus.

However, large blocks of text in the report, produced by SPI-B, the Sage subcommittee providing advice from behavioural scientists on how the public might respond to lockdown measures, were entirely blanked out.

I think I'm hooked on re-posting reports from the Grauniad now ... an echo chamber reinforcing my existing distrust of the lying bunch of ...

[wigginhall]

What a savage irony that yesterday people were celebrating the old guard who fought in the war, yet decades of neglect is seeing them dying in droves in care homes and their own homes from covid.  Some people are calling it a cull, or a bitter harvest.  Let's not forget.

[jeremyp]

Yes - we already covered that.

Yes, maybe, if you didn't want people piling on you should have stopped and thought before you posted something that was factually incorrect to rebuke somebody else.

[jeremyp]

The US has the highest death toll in the world, the UK the second highest and Italy the third highest.

The US has 330 million people in it. The UK has only 66 million people. The absolute death toll is irrelevant.

To be honest, the death rate per capita is also irrelevant unless you also take into account other factors. For example, Iceland has had only 30 deaths per million people against our 463 deaths per million. However, Iceland's population is smaller than that of Bristol in an area five times the size of Wales and it's geographically remote.

These between country comparisons are generally bullshit. The graph that the government shows us every day is bullshit. Professor Van Tam's comment yesterday that the USA is an outlier was bullshit.

Let's stop with the bullshit and try and control this disease and get the country back to some sort of functional democracy.