Coronavirus

[Nearly Sane]

Hmm...

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/04/tory-linked-firm-involved-in-testing-failure-awarded-new-347m-covid-contract?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true

[jeremyp]

Meanwhile in Barcelona


https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2020/nov/02/pianist-plays-eternal-flame-during-violent-anti-lockdown-protest-in-barcelona-video

Was he hoping they'd stop fighting each other and turn on him instead?

[SweetPea]

Is there anyone here who thinks the second lockdown should not be happening?

I've thought about the current situation a lot and have come to the conclusion some things do not add-up.
For example, when I visit my hairdresser I cannot even enter the salon before my temperature is taken; the chairs, working surfaces and even the floor is constantly disinfected; in fact the whole place wreaks (not unpleasantly, though) of disinfectant and yet the business has had to close.

The first lockdown was understandable, we had little knowledge of this new virus and the precautions taken were reasonable, at the time. Now, the apparent 'cure' is most certainly as bad as the dreaded lurgy. Many lives are being and have been ruined through lack of income enabling a domino effect. Mortgages and rents cannot be paid hence some are having to sell their homes; some are now homeless. The affect on mental health has resulted in people becoming depressed and suicide rates are higher than they have ever been.
Domestic violence has increased.

Is all this disaster really worth it?

Why, for example, is tv programme Strictly Come Dancing allowed to continue? Something else that dose not make sense: the contestants are in 'a bubble' with their partners but each partner must surely be in a bubble with their individual families. So these contestants are allowed to have two bubbles?

Why are clothes and shoe shops closed - are clothes and shoes considered not a necessity? Even though sanitised precautions are being taken. Sorry, if you need a winter coat or boots you will have to manage without. Not everyone has the internet.

I've become far more sceptical this second time around. 

 

[SusanDoris]

SweetPPea

Yes, I do see what you mean and yes, I perhaps am more worried about the major damage to the country etc, but then, living in a low rate area and able to manage my life comfortably with all the restrictions, I don't feel qualified to say. Local MP, Sir Desmond Swayne, was one of those who voted No yesterday. He knew it wouldn't make any difference of course, but was prepared to do so.

The big dificulty of course is the selfish idiots who disobey the social distancing, mask wearing and hygiene care common sense behaviours and put people in danger of becoming ill with such a very nasty disease. If it was something more like ordinary flu, then all this could have been dealt with more easily. Although ordinary flu does cause complications in peoplle with underlying conditions, and a number of people die from it every year, I understand that the pain and agony gone through by covid 19 sufferers is fa worse.

[SteveH]

Why are clothes and shoe shops closed - are clothes and shoes considered not a necessity? Even though sanitised precautions are being taken. Sorry, if you need a winter coat or boots you will have to manage without. Not everyone has the internet.

They are not a short-term necessity. We can go for a month without buying any new clothes or shoes, but we need to buy food on at least a weekly basis.

[Nearly Sane]

They are not a short-term necessity. We can go for a month without buying any new clothes or shoes, but we need to buy food on at least a weekly basis.

What if you have a kid that has grown out of shoes or clothes?

[jeremyp]

Is there anyone here who thinks the second lockdown should not be happening?

I think I've come to the same conclusion. I think the tier system was working. I think the model projections that were shown to us to justify the lockdown were flawed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8900803/Coronavirus-UK-models-predict-4-000-deaths-day-second-wave.html

Look at when the model lines start, mostly in early October. This is when the models were made. That was before the tier system was in operation. Look at the worst case model - the one with the scary 4,000 deaths per day. It predicts the number of deaths per day will exceed the April peak on......

... 1st November. We are nowhere near that, even one week later.

The only line that bears any relationship to reality is the best case model but even it still has us on an exponential curve upwards and I don't believe the data support that.

The government panicked. They didn't give the tier system a chance to work.

[jeremyp]

They are not a short-term necessity. We can go for a month without buying any new clothes or shoes, but we need to buy food on at least a weekly basis.

Every business is an essential business to the people who derive their income from them.

[Nearly Sane]

I think I've come to the same conclusion. I think the tier system was working. I think the model projections that were shown to us to justify the lockdown were flawed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8900803/Coronavirus-UK-models-predict-4-000-deaths-day-second-wave.html

Look at when the model lines start, mostly in early October. This is when the models were made. That was before the tier system was in operation. Look at the worst case model - the one with the scary 4,000 deaths per day. It predicts the number of deaths per day will exceed the April peak on......

... 1st November. We are nowhere near that, even one week later.

The only line that bears any relationship to reality is the best case model but even it still has us on an exponential curve upwards and I don't believe the data support that.

The government panicked. They didn't give the tier system a chance to work.

I suspect they panicked because they knew they had fucked up over track and trace. I think this was classic ' We must do something. This is something. We must do this.'

[SusanDoris]

Although I disagree with Sir DS on the point about religious belief, I think this latest blog is a good one and one which I support. 

https://www.desmondswaynemp.com/blogs/

[Nearly Sane]

Although I disagree with Sir DS on the point about religious belief, I think this latest blog is a good one and one which I support. 

https://www.desmondswaynemp.com/blogs/

I may agree with his outcome but that's a struggle to read because of the ridiculous hyperbole about motivations.

[SteveH]

What if you have a kid that has grown out of shoes or clothes?

You can buy them online.

[jeremyp]

I suspect they panicked because they knew they had fucked up over track and trace. I think this was classic ' We must do something. This is something. We must do this.'

I can't think of any other reason why they would put England back in a full lock down except it being necessary and right now I don't believe it is necessary.

There's also the pressure of a looming Christmas and if any part of the country is seriously restricted then, it's going to look very bad for the government.

[Nearly Sane]

You can buy them online.

Not that easy to know that the shoes you buy for kids will fit.

[jeremyp]

Although I disagree with Sir DS on the point about religious belief, I think this latest blog is a good one and one which I support. 

https://www.desmondswaynemp.com/blogs/

Two flaws that I can see.

https://www.desmondswaynemp.com/blogs/I am informed by my critics that I have failed to appreciate that the preservation of life itself is more important than liberty

I agree it is fine to risk your life for liberty but you can't ask other people to risk their lives for your liberty.

the number of daily deaths at 1600 or so daily, is normal -and has been at the normal expected level since June.

This is not good. Given the enormous number of excess deaths earlier in the year, the deaths should currently be below normal. Why? Because a lot of the people who should be dying now actually died in April or May. Coronavirus is still killing a lot of people who wouldn't otherwise have died.

That said, I think the England full lockdown is a panic measure and there were signs that the tier system was working.

[SteveH]

Not that easy to know that the shoes you buy for kids will fit.

https://www.johnlewis.com/content/baby-children/how-to-measure-childrens-feet?intcmp=ic_20200917_measureathome_cp_bab_

[SusanDoris]

Not that easy to know that the shoes you buy for kids will fit.

Not only that but how many people do not have access to make purchases on line?
I have quite often wondered - what is the minimum monthlycost of running a phone giving access to buying on line.
I can appreciate that those job seeking would find it easier to do so with such a phone, but if you are very short of money, how on earth  do people manage the monthly expense of some kind of smart phone, especially if they do not have a bank account.

[jeremyp]

Not only that but how many people do not have access to make purchases on line?
I have quite often wondered - what is the minimum monthlycost of running a phone giving access to buying on line.
I can appreciate that those job seeking would find it easier to do so with such a phone, but if you are very short of money, how on earth  do people manage the monthly expense of some kind of smart phone, especially if they do not have a bank account.

I just signed up with BT for my new flat and it's about £25 pcm give or take.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

What if you have a kid that has grown out of shoes or clothes?

Strangely, my local Marks & Spencer is selling clothes and shoes - it's open because it sells food but the clothes sections are also still open.   

[Harrowby Hall]

Strangely, my local Marks & Spencer is selling clothes and shoes - it's open because it sells food but the clothes sections are also still open.

And my Tesco, which sells mainly food, sells  clothes for women, men and children - including shoes.

[Nearly Sane]

And my Tesco, which sells mainly food, sells  clothes for women, men and children - including shoes.

The point is not that there is no ability to buy baby new shoes but that they are essentials so why should shoe shops and clothes shops have to shut while supermarkets selling shoes and clothes stay open.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

The point is not that there is no ability to buy baby new shoes but that they are essentials so why should shoe shops and clothes shops have to shut while supermarkets selling shoes and clothes stay open.

Yeah I agree - I thought it odd that M&S could sell the stuff while other shops had to shut. And I agree that clothes and shoes are essentials. Apparently there is an estimated £6.8 billion hit over next 4 weeks to the non-essential retailers that have been forced to close. They may get some sales online but low price stores like Primark have said online sales would not work for them as so many clothes bought on-line are returned so the low prices cannot cover the cost of dealing with delivery and returns.

[Nearly Sane]

How did anyone think this was a good idea?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-54841278

[SusanDoris]

Two flaws that I can see.

I agree it is fine to risk your life for liberty but you can't ask other people to risk their lives for your liberty.

This is not good. Given the enormous number of excess deaths earlier in the year, the deaths should currently be below normal. Why? Because a lot of the people who should be dying now actually died in April or May. Coronavirus is still killing a lot of people who wouldn't otherwise have died.

That said, I think the England full lockdown is a panic measure and there were signs that the tier system was working.

Thank you for comments - I would forward them to him as I think he would be interested to read them, but he is probably a bit busy at the moment.

[Aruntraveller]

How did anyone think this was a good idea?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-54841278

President Trump.