Coronavirus

[ProfessorDavey]

Congratulations guys! You people in Britain are going to start getting vaccinated (Pfizer) against the Covid 19 as early as next week.  Good going!

Well only the most vulnerable will be vaccinated anytime soon.

And I suspect most of us wont be receiving the Pfizer vaccine as the UK hasn't bought much of this one - only enough for 20 million people to be immunised. Most of us, I imagine will be getting the Oxford/AZ vaccine, which is cheaper and the government has bought far more doses.

[Roses]

Whilst the  Covid-19 vaccine seems like excellent news, I just hope they have thoroughly tested it for bad side effects. The thalidomide vaccine was given to pregnant women to relieve morning sickness, and we all know how that panned out.

[ProfessorDavey]

Whilst the  Covid-19 vaccine seems like excellent news, I just hope they have thoroughly tested it for bad side effects. The thalidomide vaccine was given to pregnant women to relieve morning sickness, and we all know how that panned out.

It has been. And there is a world of difference between this vaccine and thalidomide, which isn't a vaccine at all.

[Sriram]

Does it make sense to avoid vaccinating those who have already contracted covid?  I wouldn't think so.....but some minister in India has been saying such things. 

[Roses]

Does it make sense to avoid vaccinating those who have already contracted covid?  I wouldn't think so.....but some minister in India has been saying such things.

People who have had flu still get the vaccine, as you don't get lifelong immunity, I would have thought that might be the case with the covid vaccine.

[Sriram]

Yes...I agree with that. Even if you want to immediately save on vaccines....you can't be testing people for antibodies before vaccinating them...

[ProfessorDavey]

Does it make sense to avoid vaccinating those who have already contracted covid?  I wouldn't think so.....but some minister in India has been saying such things.

Yes it does as it isn't clear how long any immunity actually lasts.

Also you'd need to be sure that people really had had it, rather than merely thinking they had (without a definitive test result) and deciding therefore that they didn't ned to get the vaccine. So much better to vaccinate everyone possible, noting that there will be a proportion of people who cannot have the vaccine due to underlying health issues plus those that refuse to have it.

[Nearly Sane]

Apparently a superspreader event


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/02/new-orleans-swingers-convention-naughty-in-nawlins-coronavirus?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3xNn2_BWKte_oa5GuH_sfnCx8zsSQKn6ugOtuK4sIkXijnEou736gMj84#Echobox=1606936628

[SteveH]

Whilst the  Covid-19 vaccine seems like excellent news, I just hope they have thoroughly tested it for bad side effects. The thalidomide vaccine was given to pregnant women to relieve morning sickness, and we all know how that panned out.

Thalidomide isn't a vaccine.

[Robbie]

I expect Littleroses didn't intend to describe it as a vaccine; Thalidomide (Thalomid or Distival) is an excellent drug for treating many serious conditions. It was obviously not tested on pregnant women and was prescribed to them for hg with some awful results. Since then far more care has been taken when prescribing anything for a pregnant woman.

Pregnant woman are not going to be given the Covid-19 vaccine.

[ProfessorDavey]

I expect Littleroses didn't intend to describe it as a vaccine; Thalidomide (Thalomid or Distival) is an excellent drug for treating many serious conditions. It was obviously not tested on pregnant women and was prescribed to them for hg with some awful results. Since then far more care has been taken when prescribing anything for a pregnant woman.

Pregnant woman are not going to be given the Covid-19 vaccine.

That's correct.

[Sriram]

Yes it does as it isn't clear how long any immunity actually lasts.

Also you'd need to be sure that people really had had it, rather than merely thinking they had (without a definitive test result) and deciding therefore that they didn't ned to get the vaccine. So much better to vaccinate everyone possible, noting that there will be a proportion of people who cannot have the vaccine due to underlying health issues plus those that refuse to have it.

You mean..No, it doesn't make sense!  Yes, I agree that everyone should be vaccinated.  The minister was probably thinking in terms of rationing vaccines to the extent possible.   Never mind. 

[ProfessorDavey]

You mean..No, it doesn't make sense!  Yes, I agree that everyone should be vaccinated.  The minister was probably thinking in terms of rationing vaccines to the extent possible.   Never mind. 

It makes sense to vaccinate everyone regardless of whether they have previously tested positive for covid or think they might have been infected previously.

[jeremyp]

And even though it is fantastic news, the government (Matt Hancock in this case) just can't help but try to gild the lily by lying:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/02/hancock-brexit-helped-uk-to-speedy-approval-of-covid-vaccine

It's getting worse

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55175162

I just reckon we've got the very best people in this country and we've obviously got the best medical regulator, much better than the French have, much better than the Belgians have, much better than the Americans have.

That doesn't surprise me at all, because we're a much better country than every single one of them.

Frankly I'm embarrassed.

[jeremyp]

You mean..No, it doesn't make sense!  Yes, I agree that everyone should be vaccinated.  The minister was probably thinking in terms of rationing vaccines to the extent possible.   Never mind. 

If you needed to ration vaccines, it might make sense not to vaccinate people who have already had the disease (if you ca be sure who they are), but there isn't going to be a shortage for long, at least not if the Astra Zenica vaccine gets approval. The bigger concern is likely to be logistics i.e. how quickly can we get everybody vaccinated. That's why we will prioritise certain groups of people e.g. healthcare workers.

[Sriram]

"I just reckon we've got the very best people in this country and we've obviously got the best medical regulator, much better than the French have, much better than the Belgians have, much better than the Americans have.

That doesn't surprise me at all, because we're a much better country than every single one of them."

 

With an American vaccine....?!   The guy is pretty patriotic....I must say.

[ProfessorDavey]

"I just reckon we've got the very best people in this country and we've obviously got the best medical regulator, much better than the French have, much better than the Belgians have, much better than the Americans have.

That doesn't surprise me at all, because we're a much better country than every single one of them."

 

With an American vaccine....?!   The guy is pretty patriotic....I must say.

An American vaccine, manufactured in Belgium.

Just pathetic.

[Sriram]

If you needed to ration vaccines, it might make sense not to vaccinate people who have already had the disease (if you ca be sure who they are), but there isn't going to be a shortage for long, at least not if the Astra Zenica vaccine gets approval. The bigger concern is likely to be logistics i.e. how quickly can we get everybody vaccinated. That's why we will prioritise certain groups of people e.g. healthcare workers.

Yes...we are going to prioritize too. But we are unlikely to get the Pfizer one. We haven't pre-bought it, I think.  Also, the - 70 degrees requirement is very difficult to manage in India.  We are waiting for the Oxford one or the Indian ones which could be available early next year.

[jeremyp]

An American vaccine, manufactured in Belgium.

Just pathetic.

I wonder how many lives would have been saved if the various countries of the World had been able to put aside their petty squabbling about who's best and put together a global response to a global pandemic.

[ProfessorDavey]

Yes...we are going to prioritize too. But we are unlikely to get the Pfizer one. We haven't pre-bought it, I think.  Also, the - 70 degrees requirement is very difficult to manage in India.  We are waiting for the Oxford one or the Indian ones which could be available early next year.

Yes that's right - the Pfizer is less likely to be useful in certain countries due both to the logistics linked to storage temperature, but also due to cost. The Oxford/AZ one may be better and cheaper in that regard but current data suggest it may not be quite as effective and is a few weeks behind the others in terms of results and approval.

[Nearly Sane]

An American vaccine, manufactured in Belgium.

Just pathetic.

John Crace on Gavin Williamson and Jonathan Van Tan


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/03/manchild-gavin-williamson-plumbs-new-depths-of-stupidity-with-vaccine-drivel

[Nearly Sane]

Tweet from Grant Shapps


'New Business Traveller exemption: From 4am on Sat 5th Dec high-value business travellers will no longer need to self-isolate when returning to ENGLAND from a country NOT in a travel corridor, allowing more travel to support the economy and jobs. Conditions apply.'

Virus doesn't like business class

[Sriram]

Fauci has expressed some doubts about the rushed approval in the UK....though he apologized later....

The Moderna vaccine offers immunity for at least 3 months I understand...!  But that is pathetic! Do people have to get a shot after every three months? 

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-12-moderna-vaccine-confers-months-immunity.html

What are the long term dangers of the mRNA technology? Can anyone guess knowledgeably?   Are the old methods (weakened viruses) used by the other vaccines possibly more reliable, do you think?

[ProfessorDavey]

Fauci has expressed some doubts about the rushed approval in the UK....though he apologized later....

The Moderna vaccine offers immunity for at least 3 months I understand...!  But that is pathetic! Do people have to get a shot after every three months? 

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-12-moderna-vaccine-confers-months-immunity.html

But that is because the vaccine has only been being tested for a matter of months so all this means is that the volunteers vaccinated a few months ago are still showing immunity at three months because that is as far as we've been able to test so far.

What are the long term dangers of the mRNA technology? Can anyone guess knowledgeably?   Are the old methods (weakened viruses) used by the other vaccines possibly more reliable, do you think?

mRNA is likely to be safer, if anything, as it is more targeted. Regarding reliability - I see no reason why the mRNA vaccines should be less reliable, arguable more so as the basic principle is that the body uses the mRNA to produce the spike protein which then elicits an immune response. So it may provide a stronger and longer immune response to more traditional vaccines that might just inoculate with the spike protein itself which would potentially last for less time in an effective form compared to a situation where the body produces the spike protein for an extended period of time.

[jeremyp]

Tweet from Grant Shapps


'New Business Traveller exemption: From 4am on Sat 5th Dec high-value business travellers will no longer need to self-isolate when returning to ENGLAND from a country NOT in a travel corridor, allowing more travel to support the economy and jobs. Conditions apply.'

Virus doesn't like business class

It's worse than that. The business trip has to result in 50 jobs or £100k of business. So I, for example, would not be exempt because my business trips happen after the business has been won and even at my best daily rate it would require me to be abroad for in the region of 100 days or more.

This is purely for top executives on sales trips.