Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 240284 times)

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3525 on: December 08, 2020, 10:53:04 AM »
  Wee Willie Windsor was only following tradition, Gordon - a tradition set by his dear old dad who decided, on being tested positive, way back in the mists of time (April) to high tail it up to Birkhall to isolate himself there with his flunkies - taking the virus with him, of course.
I don't think there is any suggestion that William or Kate are infectious and I'm sure they'll have been having regular tests.

But nonetheless I do sometimes wonder who advises the Royals - who on earth thought this tour was a good idea. Anyone with an ounce of nouse would have recognised the numerous reasons why the optics are so bad and also how this 1200 mile round trip of the parts of the country with the worst infection rates sends all the wrong messages when it is difficult to get some of the public to abide by the rules.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3526 on: December 08, 2020, 11:03:36 AM »
Going down well in Wales too - not. >:(

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55229410

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3527 on: December 08, 2020, 11:16:33 AM »
In which case your comment that 'The Royals are a good system and that system does not need fixing!' seems rather ill-advised. If they aren't perfect then the system certainly needs change (i.e. fixing) and is arguably not a good system.
A far better system is surely too high a bar - you just need a better system. For many people (and I fully accept it isn't a majority) any system where the head of state is chosen by the people in a democratic process is a better system, indeed a far better system, than one in which the head of state is selected by accident of birth.

With one caveat I would like to agree with this.

Where this goes wrong is where the head of state is also the head of government.  Constitutional republics are ... too often ... besmerched by politics (you only have to look  across the Atlantic to see this). Anyone who wants to be president has rules himself or herself out.

Were he living today, I would say that Yehudi Menuhin would have made an admirable president. Not only was he a great musician he was also a great humanitarian and he brought great honour to his adopted homeland.

EDIT - Not intended to be a derail, sorry
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 11:19:44 AM by Harrowby Hall »
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SusanDoris

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3528 on: December 08, 2020, 12:03:24 PM »
In which case your comment that 'The Royals are a good system and that system does not need fixing!' seems rather ill-advised. If they aren't perfect then the system certainly needs change (i.e. fixing) and is arguably not a good system.
A far better system is surely too high a bar - you just need a better system. For many people (and I fully accept it isn't a majority) any system where the head of state is chosen by the people in a democratic process is a better system, indeed a far better system, than one in which the head of state is selected by accident of birth.
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Robbie

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3529 on: December 08, 2020, 01:58:35 PM »
Going down well in Wales too - not. >:(

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55229410

 :D
They're damned if they do & damned if they don't, can't win! On the whole the 'tour' seems to be quite successful tho & is well intentioned.

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jeremyp

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3530 on: December 08, 2020, 02:12:16 PM »
:D
They're damned if they do & damned if they don't, can't win! On the whole the 'tour' seems to be quite successful tho & is well intentioned.

Don't worry about it. Some people seem to think that making people not utterly miserable all the time is not essential. Some people like to pounce on every mistake - real or imagined - to bang their own political drums.

That said, the optics don't look great. In a rational world it wouldn't be a big deal, but this isn't a rational world and there will be people who try to justify their own reckless behaviour with "Will and Kate did it".
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Roses

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3531 on: December 08, 2020, 04:16:45 PM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-55230774

The 2021 school exams in Scotland have been cancelled. The ones here in Wales were cancelled the other week.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3532 on: December 08, 2020, 04:46:07 PM »
Not getting why the 'closeness to Christmas' prevented Edinburgh being moved into tier 2.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-55230778?__twitter_impression=true
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 04:52:25 PM by Nearly Sane »

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3533 on: December 08, 2020, 05:05:05 PM »
That said, the optics don't look great. In a rational world it wouldn't be a big deal, but this isn't a rational world and there will be people who try to justify their own reckless behaviour with "Will and Kate did it".
It gets worse and worse - now the government are all over the place in terms of their own messaging about the tour.

Having originally been billed as meeting frontline key workers, e.g. NHS staff, care workers etc, culture secretary Oliver Dowden (you know the guy who wanted 'fiction warnings' on The Crown) has said that their visit to Cardiff was about visiting cultural organisations. Important, no doubt, but hardly on the front-line of the fight against covid. And they visited Christmas at the Castle - a Christmas visitor attraction at Cardiff Castle. Yup, top idea encouraging people in a city with 322 cases per 100,000 and rapidly rising to attend a Christmas festival (if it's OK for them Royals, let's get out there and spread that virus)!

And then number 10 seems to have no idea - 'After initially saying the Cambridges' tour was a "matter for the palace", No 10 said Boris Johnson welcomed the "morale boost" it would provide.' Sounds as if this was all organised without any proper involvement of the devolved governments in Wales and Scotland, and increasing looks as if the UK government had no idea either.

And after 'reindeer-gate', we now have 'secret-santa-gate' in which the Cambridge's share secret santa presents (opened there and then - no gloves or masks etc) with complete strangers ... in the part of the UK with the worse case numbers, and rising. Did anyone tell them that the virus can remain viable on packaging for a number of days!

It's almost as if they've been placed in one of those health and safety videos where you have a character who does everything wrong in terms of safety to show others what not to do. Sadly there will be plenty of people who see this and think that its OK to be trotting off to a busy visitor attraction in a city with a high and rising virus problem.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3534 on: December 08, 2020, 05:25:10 PM »
Both the Express and the Mail putting the boot in now:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1369664/kate-middleton-news-duchess-of-cambridge-prince-william-scotland-royal-family-latest-VN
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9029539/Now-WALES-swipes-William-Kate-cross-Britain-tour.html

Love the Express headline (can't believe I just said that) - 'Kate Middleton and Prince William 'need heads examined' after 'ill-advised' royal tour'.

And look at the map on the Mail article - who in their right mind through that visiting a care home just hours after visiting a visitor attraction in Cardiff (with its really worrying case numbers) was a sensible idea. Looking at the tour, visiting high infection areas and high risk places - it is almost Trumpian in its super-spreader potential.

And also look at the photo of them posing with an 8 year old child undergoing cancer treatment with no attempt at social distancing ... yup you read it right - cancer treatment - no social distancing.

And to cap it all - after a completely unnecessary 48 hours of whistlestop tour of top infection places - packed full of visits just to maximise the number of contacts and potential infections - just the time to meet up with your 94 year old grandmother/grandmother in law. Not sure what they did next but if they entered Windsor castle that would most definitely be against the rules in tier 2, as you cannot meet indoors except with other members of your household.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 05:46:14 PM by ProfessorDavey »

SteveH

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3535 on: December 08, 2020, 11:07:43 PM »
I thought of starting a poll in my local FB group, which is infested by illiterate anti-vaccine people who think they know better than the vast majority of experts:

Will you be getting the SARS-Cov-2 vaccine?
1) Yes - I want to consign this bloody pandemic to history as soon as possible.
2) No - I have a valid medical exemption, confirmed by a proper doctor (not a homeopath, aromatherapist, etc).
3) No - 'm a selfish idiot.

However, in the end I thought better of it.
When conspiracy nuts start spouting their bollocks, the best answer is "That's what they want you to think".

Aruntraveller

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3536 on: December 09, 2020, 07:19:33 AM »
I thought of starting a poll in my local FB group, which is infested by illiterate anti-vaccine people who think they know better than the vast majority of experts:

Will you be getting the SARS-Cov-2 vaccine?
1) Yes - I want to consign this bloody pandemic to history as soon as possible.
2) No - I have a valid medical exemption, confirmed by a proper doctor (not a homeopath, aromatherapist, etc).
3) No - 'm a selfish idiot.

However, in the end I thought better of it.

Saw this and thought of you:

Although Covid is spread by nose and mouth, the greatest risk is now proven to be that it is spread by assholes.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

SteveH

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3537 on: December 09, 2020, 08:05:13 AM »
 ;D
When conspiracy nuts start spouting their bollocks, the best answer is "That's what they want you to think".

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3538 on: December 09, 2020, 08:32:41 AM »
And to cap it all - after a completely unnecessary 48 hours of whistlestop tour of top infection places - packed full of visits just to maximise the number of contacts and potential infections - just the time to meet up with your 94 year old grandmother/grandmother in law. Not sure what they did next but if they entered Windsor castle that would most definitely be against the rules in tier 2, as you cannot meet indoors except with other members of your household.
OK - definitely breaking the rules, as Edward/Sophie and Anne were also there:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55239618

Can't they count - there is a rule of 6, and that is definitely 8 people. And that fact that they were social distancing makes no difference as it still applies within the rule of 6.

Now I'm sure they'll try to claim it was 'work' - but firstly that is stretching the rules top breaking point - in what way is a person meet with three of her children (and in some cases their spouses) plus a grandchild and spouse somehow 'work'.

But that isn't really the main issue - around the country people wont be looking at this photo and thinking 'ah but I can't do that as meeting with my family isn't work' - nope the message it sends is that it is OK to meet up with family even if it is more than 6 people - and that isn't allowed in the rules. The Queen is high profile and has an important role in setting the norms for behaviour in these times. She must obey the rules, and obey them to the letter not try to get around them. Why - because she sets an example, and if her example is poor (which it was in this case) then the clear message is 'well if the Queen can get away with breaking the rules, why shouldn't I'.

Poor show.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3539 on: December 09, 2020, 10:20:20 AM »

Roses

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3540 on: December 09, 2020, 11:17:33 AM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55244122

People who suffer from significant allergic reactions have been told it is not wise for them to have the vaccine.
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SteveH

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3541 on: December 09, 2020, 11:28:03 AM »
Also pregnant women, though breastfeeding is not a counter-indication, and pregnancy is a temporary bar, so, apart from people with a genuine, permanent counter-indication, the whole country could be vaccinated in under a year.
When conspiracy nuts start spouting their bollocks, the best answer is "That's what they want you to think".

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3542 on: December 09, 2020, 11:31:36 AM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55244122

People who suffer from significant allergic reactions have been told it is not wise for them to have the vaccine.
All the more reason for everyone to get the vaccine, except those without a valid reason that means they cannot have the vaccine.

While I am a strong believer in consent there are times when public health (and the economy in this case) are perhaps stronger arguments. And while I wouldn't go as far as forcing people to have the vaccine I see no reason why being vaccinated (unless you cannot be for medical reasons) should be a requirement for accessing services etc.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3543 on: December 09, 2020, 12:47:56 PM »
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 01:06:00 PM by Nearly Sane »

ad_orientem

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3544 on: December 09, 2020, 05:34:28 PM »
All the more reason for everyone to get the vaccine, except those without a valid reason that means they cannot have the vaccine.

While I am a strong believer in consent there are times when public health (and the economy in this case) are perhaps stronger arguments. And while I wouldn't go as far as forcing people to have the vaccine I see no reason why being vaccinated (unless you cannot be for medical reasons) should be a requirement for accessing services etc.

Broadly agree with that. I believe that vaccination works but should be voluntary as much as possible. But then different countries work in different ways. Over here, recommendations seem to work well as most people trust the authorities that make them.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3545 on: December 09, 2020, 05:41:26 PM »

ad_orientem

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3546 on: December 09, 2020, 05:47:35 PM »
There seems to have been a glitch in the health authorities computer system where cases are reported. 470 cases (I know that doesn't sound much but it is for us) weren't recorded from 2-8.12 because of it. For the last couple of weeks we've been recording about 300-500 new cases a day. During the summer we even had a few zero days.
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Roses

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3547 on: December 11, 2020, 02:36:35 PM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55265317

Welsh secondary schools and FE colleges will do lessons on-line as from next Monday.
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Robbie

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3548 on: December 11, 2020, 03:08:36 PM »
That seems sensible to me though I am not insensitive to the difficulties it poses for working parents some of whom still have to go out to work. I'm glad not to have children at school any more - not for a long time - but wonder how I would have managed. I did have family around who were always willing to step up, as I did for nieces and nephews, but with 'bubbles' and the like which we have now I don't know how that would have worked. I could have done some work from home as I did in this job during the first lockdown.

I finished work at 2.30 today and off Monday. There was more traffic about when I was coming home than I've seen for ages, s'pose people are shopping in Bromley.
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Roses

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #3549 on: December 11, 2020, 03:23:59 PM »
In areas where broadband access is limited will not make it easy for some children trying to do their lessons on-line.
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