Coronavirus

[Spud]

Ok apologies for that. The actual figures for deaths (March - June 2020, later data isn't available/easy to find) are here:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/ukcovid19deathsbyagewithnounderlyingconditions

8.9% without underlying health conditions died.

A large %  who you seem to want to take a gamble with their lives.

That seems odd: In the US study, Table 1 says that the number of covid patients with no underlying disease who died was 740, which is 0.9% of the 80,174 covid patients who died.

[ProfessorDavey]

I've recently suggested one way. Breathing in air that is warm, if the external temperature is cold, or air that is cool, if the external temperature is hot, will help the alveoli to remain within the temperature limits at which they function best.

Oh dear - yet another one of your nonsense suggestions.

So living in a warm climate, such as India or Brazil or Mexico or Indonesia should naturally reduce the impact of covid. Hmm, slight problem those countries are all in the top seven for covid deaths.

[Spud]

Oh dear - yet another one of your nonsense suggestions.

So living in a warm climate, such as India or Brazil or Mexico or Indonesia should naturally reduce the impact of covid. Hmm, slight problem those countries are all in the top seven for covid deaths.

India had temperatures over 40 C at the peak of their infections. That's way above the optimum temp for lung function. Those countries also have high population densities, which worsened the spread.

[Spud]

Ok apologies for that. The actual figures for deaths (March - June 2020, later data isn't available/easy to find) are here:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/ukcovid19deathsbyagewithnounderlyingconditions

8.9% without underlying health conditions died.

A large %  who you seem to want to take a gamble with their lives.

1.7% were under 70.
0.2% were under 45.

[Aruntraveller]

1.7% were under 70.
0.2% were under 45.

OIC.

You have the BJ mindset. They're old. They don't count.

Having the vaccine is about the protection of others not only yourself.

[Spud]

OIC.

You have the BJ mindset. They're old. They don't count.

Having the vaccine is about the protection of others not only yourself.

I've thought all along that it was important to vaccinate those over 70.
Re protecting others, it's true but don't forget that young people being more resilient could have protected the elderly (once the latter had been vaccinated) through developing natural immunity, which has been demonstated (in Israel recently) to be as good if not better than vaccine-induced immunity.

[ProfessorDavey]

I've thought all along that it was important to vaccinate those over 70.
Re protecting others, it's true but don't forget that young people being more resilient could have protected the elderly (once the latter had been vaccinated) through developing immunity through natural infection. This has been demonstated (in Israel recently) to be as good if not better than vaccination immunity.

But if you are relying on natural immunity from infections, firstly there will be a load of those people, however young, who will get seriously ill, some will die and others will have the long lasting effects of long covid. Also you simply cannot generate natural immunity as fast as a vaccination programme without the infection running riot, and when infections run riot you cannot protect the vulnerable as sooner or later the infection gets to them.

Or, of course, you can engage in a highly effective vaccination campaign which will, of course, run alongside natural immunity as until the virus is completely eradicated there will always be some underlying level of infection ongoing.

[ProfessorDavey]

India had temperatures over 40 C at the peak of their infections. That's way above the optimum temp for lung function.

So it can't be too cold and it can't be too hot.

Spud, can you explain to me exactly how you are going to maintain this perfect ambient temperature (even if is were to have a beneficial effect) for the entire population at risk of becoming infected.

[Aruntraveller]

I've thought all along that it was important to vaccinate those over 70.
Re protecting others, it's true but don't forget that young people being more resilient could have protected the elderly (once the latter had been vaccinated) through developing natural immunity, which has been demonstated (in Israel recently) to be as good if not better than vaccine-induced immunity.

Which still means that in the younger group the virus will spread and put the elderly at increased risk. You are BJ. I claim my prize.

[Spud]

But if you are relying on natural immunity from infections, firstly there will be a load of those people, however young, who will get seriously ill, some will die and others will have the long lasting effects of long covid. Also you simply cannot generate natural immunity as fast as a vaccination programme without the infection running riot, and when infections run riot you cannot protect the vulnerable as sooner or later the infection gets to them.

Or, of course, you can engage in a highly effective vaccination campaign which will, of course, run alongside natural immunity as until the virus is completely eradicated there will always be some underlying level of infection ongoing.

As I understand it, there will always be disease and death, however we manage infection. Social distancing can minimize this, and is very important. We shouldn't underestimate the value of natrally-acquired immunity. The "vaccinate everybody" approach causes a sudden surge in immune pressure on the virus, which responds with more infectious variants becoming dominant. Relying more on natural immunity allows the virus to occupy a niche while that immunity gradually builds up to the point where the disease is endemic rather than pandemic.

[Sebastian Toe]

The "vaccinate everybody" approach causes a sudden surge in immune pressure on the virus, which responds with more infectious variants becoming dominant.

..except that the current dominant strain the "India variant" arose from a country which at the time had  IIRC less than 0.05% of its population vaccinated!?

[Aruntraveller]

Relying more on natural immunity allows the virus to occupy a niche while that immunity gradually builds up to the point where the disease is endemic rather than pandemic.

Right. Allowing ever new and more devious variants to arise.

[Spud]

..except that the current dominant strain the "India variant" arose from a country which at the time had  IIRC less than 0.05% of its population vaccinated!?

Am not denying that Delta was detected prior to mass vaccination. It probably arose because of high numbers of infections last summer.

[Spud]

Right. Allowing ever new and more devious variants to arise.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that natural immunity may protect better against new variants.

[ProfessorDavey]

Am not denying that Delta was detected prior to mass vaccination. It probably arose because of high numbers of infections last summer.

The biggest driver for the emergence of new variants of concern is the number of viral replication events which is basically down to the rates of infection. Vaccination significantly reduces (although does not eliminate) the transmission of the virus. More vaccination, less viral replication events and therefore less likelihood that a random mutation will be a variant of concern.

And actually all the current variants of concern arose prior to mass vaccination.

[Nearly Sane]

What a farce!


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccine-passports-can-still-help-defeat-winter-wave-no-10-insists-3zv90szj8?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1631513420

[SusanDoris]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that natural immunity may protect better against new variants.

Your appalling ignorance and disregard for the safety of as many people as possible is mind-numbingly shocking. And although you may deny your lack of concern for others, it would become apparent if you just stepped outside your complacent, uninformed shell for a moment.

[Aruntraveller]

Just to highlight how random and desperately cruel Covid is, and why Spud is way, way off the mark, I suggest reading this:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/14/the-virus-is-painfully-real-vaccine-hesitant-people-are-dying-and-their-loved-ones-want-the-world-to-listen

[Harrowby Hall]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that natural immunity may protect better against new variants.

Yes. And you also forgot to mention that natural immunity will only be achieved at the probable cost of millions of deaths.

[jeremyp]

I've recently suggested one way. Breathing in air that is warm, if the external temperature is cold, or air that is cool, if the external temperature is hot, will help the alveoli to remain within the temperature limits at which they function best.

Where do you get the warm air from if it is cold outside or the cold air from if it is hot outside?

[SusanDoris]

Just to highlight how random and desperately cruel Covid is, and why Spud is way, way off the mark, I suggest reading this:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/14/the-virus-is-painfully-real-vaccine-hesitant-people-are-dying-and-their-loved-ones-want-the-world-to-listen

This should be read by Spud over and over and over again and by all other vaccine-resistant fools.

[ad_orientem]

As I understand it, there will always be disease and death, however we manage infection. Social distancing can minimize this, and is very important. We shouldn't underestimate the value of natrally-acquired immunity. The "vaccinate everybody" approach causes a sudden surge in immune pressure on the virus, which responds with more infectious variants becoming dominant. Relying more on natural immunity allows the virus to occupy a niche while that immunity gradually builds up to the point where the disease is endemic rather than pandemic.

I can smell something. Trying to work out what it is. Cracked it! It's bullshit!

[Spud]

Where do you get the warm air from if it is cold outside or the cold air from if it is hot outside?

A car heater for cold weather and I guess a homebase air conditioner for hot weather.

[Aruntraveller]

A car heater for cold weather and I guess a homebase air conditioner for hot weather.

Thereby adding to the global climate crisis.

Save the planet - have the vaccine.

[Sebastian Toe]

A car heater for cold weather and I guess a homebase air conditioner for hot weather.

..and for those people who don't have a car?

Are the recommended air conditioners portable and battery operated? Do they work for your purposes if it is both hot and windy?