Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 239434 times)

Spud

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7091
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4825 on: December 18, 2021, 01:22:20 PM »
You are just repeating yourself Spud, and your arguments are no more compelling than they were previously.

One of the major points about vaccination is that it ensures that when someone is exposed to the virus that their immune system is already primed. This has a number of benefits.
It does not ensure this in all cases. Vaccines are supposed to be used either on a small part of the population or when there is no chance of infection while building up antibodies. There is a reason for this. When a highly mutable virus meets an incompletely primed immune system, fitter strains will be selected which will be transmitted and eventually become dominant. The immune system needs to be completely primed before exposure to the antigen. That requirement cannot be sufficiently met during a pandemic.

If however this virus meets a naive immune system in a healthy person, it will nearly always be eliminated by that person's innate antibodies and natural killer cells before his acquired antibodies build up sufficiently to select more infectious strains as described above.

So if a small part of the population is vaccinated while there is a risk of infection, there are still enough unvaccinated healthy people whose innate immune systems will prevent more infectious strains from circulating.

Quote
First, of course, it makes the infection likely to be less serious, so less chance of hospitalisation and death.
Yes, but at the same time the virus is being transmitted by vaccinees and undergoing natural selection due to the unfavourable environment. So long term these people are still at risk of serious disease from more infectious strains.

Quote
But also it make it more difficult for the virus to replicate and reduces viral shedding and therefore the likelihood for others to become infected.

Thirdly with less infection and less serious infection there is a reduction in the number of viral replication events, each of which may result in a mutation. The fewer mutations the less likelihood of a new variant of concern arising that may evade immunity (whether natural or vaccine-induced).
This is the case once the vaccinal antibodies are primed, but not when they are suboptimal or waning, at which point the virus will at some point overcome these antibodies and the infection rate will increase again.

Quote
In every respect vaccination is good and more vaccination is better.
Not when used while infection is occurring.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2021, 01:35:48 PM by Spud »

Gordon

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18205
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4826 on: December 18, 2021, 01:28:39 PM »
Reports suggest that the Dutch government plan to implement a lockdown tonight and that the UK government plan a 'circuit break' in England immediately after Xmas, although various UK experts are saying this needs to happen sooner than that

Be interesting to see if Parliament is recalled next week to approve this in England and, if so, whether Johnson will be opposed by his own party.

Aruntraveller

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10958
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4827 on: December 18, 2021, 01:54:03 PM »
Quote
If however this virus meets a naive immune system in a healthy person, it will nearly always be eliminated by that person's innate antibodies and natural killer cells before his acquired antibodies build up sufficiently to select more infectious strains as described above.

I think we have things called dead bodies that disprove that ludicrous statement.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Spud

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7091
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4828 on: December 18, 2021, 02:03:25 PM »
I think we have things called dead bodies that disprove that ludicrous statement.
In the US study cited earlier, on 500k people hospitalized with C-19, over 90% of them had co-morbidities.

Aruntraveller

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10958
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4829 on: December 18, 2021, 02:06:52 PM »
In the US study cited earlier, on 500k people hospitalized with C-19, over 90% of them had co-morbidities.

So this study confirms that 50,000 people who were hospitalized didn't have comorbidities.

Do you have a point to your relentless anti vaccine propaganda. Or do you just want everyone to catch this disease and have a proportion of them die?
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Spud

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7091
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4830 on: December 18, 2021, 02:29:27 PM »
So this study confirms that 50,000 people who were hospitalized didn't have comorbidities.
The exact figure is 5.1% of 540,000 which is about 27,000. Suppose the rest had been vaccinated, that equals about 0.15% of the USA population vaccinated.

Quote
Do you have a point to your relentless anti vaccine propaganda. Or do you just want everyone to catch this disease and have a proportion of them die?
Vaccinating everybody will perpetuate the pandemic so that ultimately more people are sick and die than without mass vaccination.

Udayana

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5478
  • βε ηερε νοω
    • The Byrds - My Back Pages
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4831 on: December 18, 2021, 03:24:24 PM »
It's now being reported that Simon is off the Case (again Guardian Live blog).

This doesn't seem enough to me. That he accepted the role having allowed similar, possibly  illegal, activities in his own office, and not declaring the situation was plainly wrong. He should resign his post or be sacked.

Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Aruntraveller

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10958
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4832 on: December 18, 2021, 03:29:42 PM »
The exact figure is 5.1% of 540,000 which is about 27,000. Suppose the rest had been vaccinated, that equals about 0.15% of the USA population vaccinated.
Vaccinating everybody will perpetuate the pandemic so that ultimately more people are sick and die than without mass vaccination.

Thanks for confirming you are an anti-vaxxer. I know where to file your future comments.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Udayana

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5478
  • βε ηερε νοω
    • The Byrds - My Back Pages
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4833 on: December 18, 2021, 03:30:43 PM »
...
Vaccinating everybody will perpetuate the pandemic so that ultimately more people are sick and die than without mass vaccination.

Until you can show the maths supporting your inane claims they will, rightly, be ignored. 
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Gordon

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18205
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4834 on: December 18, 2021, 06:41:04 PM »
Reported tonight.

Quote
The Netherlands will go into a new lockdown from Sunday morning to try to limit Covid-19 infections because of the Omicron variant, prime minister Mark Rutte said on Saturday.

He said: “The Netherlands is again shutting down.

“That is unavoidable because of the fifth wave that is coming at us with the Omicron variant,” Reuters reports.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63686
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4835 on: December 19, 2021, 03:05:54 PM »
Private Eye

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63686
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4836 on: December 20, 2021, 09:33:23 AM »

Once upon a time you might have had wine at 'work meeting', though not in the last 20 years. And not fucking last year. This govt is a pile of entitled shites lead by a shite covered incompetent lying entitled prick


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59722081

Gordon

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18205
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4837 on: December 20, 2021, 09:49:18 AM »
Who is also spineless and is prepared to risk the health and welfare of others to avoid upsetting the lunatics in his own party.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63686
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4838 on: December 20, 2021, 10:14:16 AM »
.

Anchorman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16038
  • Maranatha!
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4839 on: December 20, 2021, 10:49:33 AM »
Once upon a time you might have had wine at 'work meeting', though not in the last 20 years. And not fucking last year. This govt is a pile of entitled shites lead by a shite covered incompetent lying entitled prick


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59722081
   

Come on....it was a meeting: Honest Boris was there, so it must have been.
I must say, tchnology is marvellous: invisible papers, desks and computers in evidence - that confirms it.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

SteveH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10169
  • God? She's black.
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4840 on: December 20, 2021, 12:05:58 PM »
Once upon a time you might have had wine at 'work meeting', though not in the last 20 years. And not fucking last year. This govt is a pile of entitled shites lead by a shite covered incompetent lying entitled prick

They are not "entitled"; they have a sense of entitlement, which is not the same thing at all.
When conspiracy nuts start spouting their bollocks, the best answer is "That's what they want you to think".

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63686
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4841 on: December 20, 2021, 12:19:21 PM »
They are not "entitled"; they have a sense of entitlement, which is not the same thing at all.
It has a pejorative sense as well-  https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/entitled
And I can't believe you are derailing the issue because this. Post what you think about the party.




jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32220
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4842 on: December 20, 2021, 01:11:51 PM »
Once upon a time you might have had wine at 'work meeting', though not in the last 20 years. And not fucking last year. This govt is a pile of entitled shites lead by a shite covered incompetent lying entitled prick


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59722081

Maybe in your puritanical world that would be the case. I wouldn't rule out having wine at a work meeting under normal circumstances.

However, if I was having a work meeting during a period when social gatherings were banned, I would do everything I could to make sure it is seen unambiguously as a work meeting.

- The people at the meeting would be at the meeting and not twenty yards down the garden.

- Wine would not be present.

- Neither would my wife.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2021, 01:15:52 PM by jeremyp »
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63686
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4843 on: December 20, 2021, 03:09:49 PM »
Coldwar Steve's take

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63686
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4844 on: December 20, 2021, 04:27:34 PM »
And

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63686
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4845 on: December 21, 2021, 02:59:46 PM »

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63686
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4846 on: December 21, 2021, 08:40:47 PM »
And fines for those who don't work from home when they can in Wales. Not keen on this idea


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59741680

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63686
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4847 on: December 22, 2021, 06:26:53 AM »

Aruntraveller

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10958
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Gordon

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18205
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #4849 on: December 23, 2021, 12:44:49 PM »
Allison Pearson being a dangerous twat:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/reactions-as-allison-pearson-writes-in-telegraph-its-time-for-humanity-to-prevail-over-scientists-306003/?

Further confirmation that the Torygraph is indistinguishable from Andrex (with apologies to the manufacturers of Andrex).