What is it with atheists and fairy stories?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I have noticed that some atheists equate religion with fairy stories.
I wonder if an atheist could explain why they use the term 'fairy story' in the perjorative and why they equate religion with fairy stories?

[Gordon]

I have noticed that some atheists equate religion with fairy stories.
I wonder if an atheist could explain why they use the term 'fairy story' in the perjorative and why they equate religion with fairy stories?

Go easy on the 'pejorative' old chap: there are some wonderful fairy stories out there even if they aren't remotely believable. The trick is not to take them literally once you've recognised them as being fantasy.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Go easy on the 'pejorative' old chap: there are some wonderful fairy stories out there even if they aren't remotely believable. The trick is not to take them literally once you've recognised them as being fantasy.

How then do you suggest I take 'The God Delusion' if not literally?

[Gordon]

How then do you suggest I take 'The God Delusion' if not literally?

I suggest you consult a librarian since you've clearly be looking in the wrong shelf.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I suggest you consult a librarian since you've clearly be looking in the wrong shelf.

It is frequently misplaced by Waterstones as 'popular science'.

[Gordon]

It is frequently misplaced by Waterstones as 'popular science'.

Try looking in 'Theology', Vlad.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Try looking in 'Theology', Vlad.

Already got a copy Gordon. I was actually unsurprised by the atheism rather than his antiphysicistism.

[Outrider]

I have noticed that some atheists equate religion with fairy stories.
I wonder if an atheist could explain why they use the term 'fairy story' in the perjorative and why they equate religion with fairy stories?

From the wikipedia entry on 'Fairy Tales':

A fairy tale, fairytale, wonder tale, magic tale, or M舐chen is an instance of a folklore genre that takes the form of a short story. Such stories typically feature entities such as dwarfs, dragons, elves, fairies, giants, gnomes, goblins, griffins, mermaids, talking animals, trolls, unicorns, or witches, and usually magic or enchantments. In most cultures, there is no clear line separating myth from folk or fairy tale; all these together form the literature of preliterate societies.

It's a story (or collection of stories) featuring magic, magical creatures and supernatural forces.  The fact that you accept it as some depiction of reality is what differentiates the Bible from Grimm's works, not anything in the base material.

O.

[ProfessorDavey]

I have noticed that some atheists equate religion with fairy stories.
I wonder if an atheist could explain why they use the term 'fairy story' in the perjorative and why they equate religion with fairy stories?

I'm not sure that I've ever compared religion to fairy stories - but perhaps I can give some insight as to why some may well do.

Firstly because neither fairy stories nor religion are evidence-based. There is no evidence that the claims in the fairy stories nor religions are true.

Secondly, while not having a scrap of evidence to support their fundamental veracity, both fairy stories and religion work on the basis of allegory, providing a moral or meaning that is to be taken away from the story. So although not actually true they provide value in societies to cement cultural and societal norms.

I also agree that comparing religion to fairy stories is often a pejorative approach (whether that is reasonable or not I leave to others), however you could just as easily equate religions to myths or fables, which also are typically not based on factual truth but provide a message.

[Owlswing]

I have noticed that some atheists equate religion with fairy stories.
I wonder if an atheist could explain why they use the term 'fairy story' in the perjorative and why they equate religion with fairy stories?

This is a case of asking a question knowing full well (from your years of posting on this Forum) what the answers are going to be - in your view they will be "taking the piss" and in everyone elses the will be "stating facts and truth!"

In a written way you have just asked, in the real world, to have people kick you on the butt!

Further to the first point, I think you are asking the question knowing the answer and asking for opportunities to show off what you consider to be your intelligence, wit and humour.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

This is a case of asking a question knowing full well (from your years of posting on this Forum) what the answers are going to be - in your view they will be "taking the piss" and in everyone elses the will be "stating facts and truth!"

In a written way you have just asked, in the real world, to have people kick you on the butt!

Further to the first point, I think you are asking the question knowing the answer and asking for opportunities to show off what you consider to be your intelligence, wit and humour.

Well you know and I know that it's not just the usual suspects who read this board or at least used to be. And there's a chance one's posts on this MB have been hawked by a certain laddie onto FFSTDT. I know mine have.

[Owlswing]

Well you know and I know that it's not just the usual suspects who read this board or at least used to be. And there's a chance one's posts on this MB have been hawked by a certain laddie onto FFSTDT. I know mine have.

What does FFGTTDT mean?

[flower girl]

From the perspective of one who believes in God, I can understand completely the comparison.  The thing is, I can't defend to anyone why I still have a strong faith in a loving God that I feel is part of every moment when my world was so shattered when I found out my parents had deliberately deceived me about Santa Clause.  (What a terrible day that was.)  Having said that, I have not been able to see the Bible as inerrant mainly because of my Santa Clause experience. 

[SteveH]

Because the dimmer ones like to pretend that all religion is as daft as the daftest shores of religion. They pretend we're all swivel-eyed fundies, though they know perfectly well that there are far more intelligent versions around.

[Nearly Sane]

Because the dimmer ones like to pretend that all religion is as daft as the daftest shores of religion. They pretend we're all swivel-eyed fundies, though they know perfectly well that there are far more intelligent versions around.

What is a far more intelligent reason to believe in a 'god'?

[Outrider]

Because the dimmer ones like to pretend that all religion is as daft as the daftest shores of religion. They pretend we're all swivel-eyed fundies, though they know perfectly well that there are far more intelligent versions around.

Or, rather, because it's a continuum from 'serious' religion at one end to Santa at the other, and there isn't a clear line to delineate anywhere why one should be considered 'just' a story and the other should be considered some understanding of reality.  If there are no obvious qualitative differences in the concepts (rather than people's responses to them) then why should there be an artificial distinction?

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Or, rather, because it's a continuum from 'serious' religion at one end to Santa at the other, and there isn't a clear line to delineate anywhere why one should be considered 'just' a story and the other should be considered some understanding of reality.  If there are no obvious qualitative differences in the concepts (rather than people's responses to them) then why should there be an artificial distinction?

O.

I知 going to call you on this one.........demonstrate that continuum.

[jeremyp]

I have noticed that some atheists equate religion with fairy stories.
I wonder if an atheist could explain why they use the term 'fairy story' in the perjorative and why they equate religion with fairy stories?

They equate religion with fairy stories because the stories have magic and the supernatural in them and are generally accepted to be obviously not true. Fairy stories are also considered to be for children and we all "grow out of them".

As for the "pejorative way", I can't be sure of other people's motives, but my opinion is that it is a reaction against the undue reverence that many people give to religious ideas. In any other context, the story of Jesus' resurrection would be considered to be obviously mythical and we would categorise people that believed it to be nutters, but because it's part of Christian folklore, we treat it seriously. We even have a national holiday to commemorate it.

The same applies to things like "the Sky Fairy", "zombie on a stick" and so on.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

They equate religion with fairy stories because the stories have magic and the supernatural in them and are generally accepted to be obviously not true. Fairy stories are also considered to be for children and we all "grow out of them".

As for the "pejorative way", I can't be sure of other people's motives, but my opinion is that it is a reaction against the undue reverence that many people give to religious ideas. In any other context, the story of Jesus' resurrection would be considered to be obviously mythical and we would categorise people that believed it to be nutters, but because it's part of Christian folklore, we treat it seriously. We even have a national holiday to commemorate it.

The same applies to things like "the Sky Fairy", "zombie on a stick" and so on.

After experiencing atheists on this board, I知 afraid I cannot accept any plea of having grown up.

[jeremyp]

After experiencing atheists on this board, I知 afraid I cannot accept any plea of having grown up.

Don't worry, nobody is accusing you of it.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

They equate religion with fairy stories because the stories have magic and the supernatural in them and are generally accepted to be obviously not true. Fairy stories are also considered to be for children and we all "grow out of them".

As for the "pejorative way", I can't be sure of other people's motives, but my opinion is that it is a reaction against the undue reverence that many people give to religious ideas. In any other context, the story of Jesus' resurrection would be considered to be obviously mythical and we would categorise people that believed it to be nutters, but because it's part of Christian folklore, we treat it seriously. We even have a national holiday to commemorate it.

The same applies to things like "the Sky Fairy", "zombie on a stick" and so on.

Use of words sky fairy are deliberately used by atheists to make themselves feel superior despite the bollocks about wanting to educate theists.

I am well aware of the atheist humbug. OK to piss on theists but you tell an atheist that you think the sainted Douglas Adams was a **nt or educate them on the Larry Krauss experience and then see what happens.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Don't worry, nobody is accusing you of it.

What a mature response.

[Outrider]

I知 going to call you on this one.........demonstrate that continuum.

I just gave my explanation of why - if you think it's wrong, show me where the qualitative 'line in the sand' is that differentiates morality tales of magical beings which people don't believe from the morality tales of magical beings which people do believe.

O.

[ProfessorDavey]

After experiencing atheists on this board, I知 afraid I cannot accept any plea of having grown up.

I guess every once in a while we need to lower ourselves to the levels of infantalism you demonstrate in most of your posts Vlad.

There you go - there's a new '-ism' you can band around.

[ProfessorDavey]

From the perspective of one who believes in God, I can understand completely the comparison.  The thing is, I can't defend to anyone why I still have a strong faith in a loving God that I feel is part of every moment when my world was so shattered when I found out my parents had deliberately deceived me about Santa Clause.  (What a terrible day that was.)  Having said that, I have not been able to see the Bible as inerrant mainly because of my Santa Clause experience.

I guess my point is to determine to what extent your continuing belief in (I presume) a christian god is inherent and intrinsic or learned behaviour (like Santa) albeit enduring learned behaviour (unless Santa).

It would be helpful to know a little more about your upbringing if you are willing to share. Over the years, for our longstanding posters, we've learned a lot about each other, but as a newbie I don't think I know much about you.

I know you are based in the USA (Florida currently) - and I guess if you were brought up in the US then you would have been growing up in a society whether christianity was pretty omni-present and both accepted and acceptable. It would be interesting to know if you were brought up in a christian household and perhaps specifically brought up to be christian. I think these are the elements of learned behaviour that can be incredible enduring even if (as you put it) you can't explain or defend why.