Post Covid 19 beliefs

[Owlswing]

I hope to see Tories in front of international courts over there handling of the crisis and for crimes against humanity over herd immunity which must be the first instance of a nation like ours employing a lethal biological agent on its population as policy and subsequently using children as pit canaries. Absolutely monstrous.

I notice that you have carefully NOT commented upon the last sentance of my post - this one

Personally I am not a fan of politicians of any party, particularly an anti-Semetic leader of an anti-Semetic party and a supporter of the I R A (who, incidentally, were responsible for the murder of three fellow soldiers, off duty, out of uniform and out with their families who also died in the explosion!

Sorry that you don't have the balls to have a go at Commie Corbyn!

By the way, I cannot say that I support any of the politicians elected to the House, the British politician is rapidly becoming as bent as the US counterparts!

 

[Owlswing]

here's a danger of weaponising bereavement in the cause of promoting anti christianity.

There is, i regret to say, no danger of you ever realising that I am Not anti-Christian - I am anti-Christ and anti-his Father!

A lot of Christians, excluding the clergy and blinkered or blind zealots like you, are good people.

[Owlswing]

It's a damn sight better than when the church ran the state.

Ain't that the truth!"

[Enki]

Hi everyone,

In the wake of the Covid 19 pandemic, has anyone's beliefs about the nature of life and death changed significantly?

Have any atheists begun to see some merit in spiritual beliefs....not necessarily in a Christian God or other specific religious beliefs?! 

Have any religious people had any change of thinking about their beliefs in God or the after-life or other supernatural things?

Any beliefs that have been further strengthened?

Any views?

Sriram

The pandemic hasn't altered my views on the nature of life and death at all, except, perhaps, to assess and value those things which I find most important in my life at the present time (e.g. family, nature, opportunity to learn a new skill).

I always saw merits in my spiritual inclinations(rather than beliefs)as I have said before, and that hasn't changed. (I doubt that your idea of spiritual beliefs is the same as mine.)

What religious people think is up to them.

The only realizations that have been strengthened for me is that, on one level, we live in a world where things happen which take no account of human beings at all. From  nature's point of view we are no more significant than a virus. Yet I am encouraged by the evidence that, as a social animal, we tend to come together as individuals and support each other in times of trial. Finally,  the realization that we are dependent on what we can do, especially through science,  will hopefully see us through in the long term.

[Owlswing]

Yes, theocracies don't work. In this country though the church was never the seat of power. Dynasties and oligarchs have been.

We do not have a theocracy, but we do have an upper chamber with an inordinate number of clergy sitting in it! It's bad enough that the upper house is unelected but to have the higher levels of only one religion present is disgusting especially taking account of the number of religions actively pursued by the UK's VOTING population is diguting in its bias  - all or none not just one!

[jeremyp]

In the wake of the Covid 19 pandemic, has anyone's beliefs about the nature of life and death changed significantly?

No.

Have any atheists begun to see some merit in spiritual beliefs....not necessarily in a Christian God or other specific religious beliefs?! 

Not me personally, but I won't attempt to speak for all atheists.

Have any religious people had any change of thinking about their beliefs in God or the after-life or other supernatural things?

Don't know.

Any beliefs that have been further strengthened?

Yes. My belief that there are quite a lot of bloody idiots in the world has been strengthened.

Any views?

I'm getting quite familiar with the one out of my office/bedroom window.

[ProfessorDavey]

Hi everyone,

In the wake of the Covid 19 pandemic, has anyone's beliefs about the nature of life and death changed significantly?

Have any atheists begun to see some merit in spiritual beliefs....not necessarily in a Christian God or other specific religious beliefs?! 

Have any religious people had any change of thinking about their beliefs in God or the after-life or other supernatural things?

Any beliefs that have been further strengthened?

Any views?

Sriram

Nope - the Covid 19 pandemic hasn't altered my beliefs, or rather lack of belief in god. Nor has it changed my feelings about broader spiritual beliefs - I don't believe in them and do not consider their claims of veracity to be credible - but I do recognise that they (along with belief in god etc) do give some people comfort. Provided those people don't try to claim their beliefs are objectively true (i.e. true for everyone) rather then subjectively true (i.e. true for me) then I've no issue with that.

The current situation, does however, remind me of the time, some 31 years ago, when I came to recognise that I did not believe in god. I don't think I ever really believed in god but until that point I don't think I had really come to recognise that I was atheist. Thirty one years ago 96 completely normal and innocent people went to a football match and ended up dead - trying to reconcile that with the notion of an all power and supposedly loving god was impossible. Everything became so much clearer - snapped into focus so to speak - by moving god completely out of the picture. We ended up with a human tragedy with human causes, human failings and human heroes too.

Similar for cover-19 - a natural pandemic, horribly affecting the entire world. If god existed how could he let this happen - to reconcile that you need to tie your self up in theological knots. The explanations are so much easier and clearer if god doesn't exist. It doesn't mean the tragedy is belittled, quite the reverse - not believing in god means that we all have to stand up and take responsibility as people - we have to grow up - we cannot rely on the emotional crutch of a god, in the way a child relies on their parents to sort things. But of course, at least parents exist.

[Robbie]

I don't understand vindictiveness, pretty sure I never felt it & if anyone felt it against me I haven't noticed. What good does it do?

[Robbie]

Sririam all I hope is that we are all a little kinder when this ends. I've always been awre of the fragility of life, that hasn't changed.

[Owlswing]

Sririam all I hope is that we are all a little kinder when this ends. I've always been awre of the fragility of life, that hasn't changed.

I really think that, considering the behaviour of some people during lock-down/isolation/social distancing, the fragility of life is going to continue to be demonstrated by the death-toll from this bloody disease!

[Sriram]

I don't think that even deeply religious people believed that the world is some sort of a holiday resort which God is supposed to manage such that people are all well taken care of and have no difficulties at all.  Just be born, eat and drink, have sex, live to a hundred and die peacefully in the sleep. Pointless...I should think!

Difficulties and problems are an essential part of the world. Its temporal nature is itself a part of it. That is what makes the idea of a spiritual angle and an after-life all the more meaningful.

The idea of the world being like a school in which difficulties are the lessons is what seems meaningful.

[Owlswing]

I don't think that even deeply religious people believed that the world is some sort of a holiday resort which God is supposed to manage such that people are all well taken care of and have no difficulties at all.  Just be born, eat and drink, have sex, live to a hundred and die peacefully in the sleep. Pointless...I should think!

Difficulties and problems are an essential part of the world. Its temporal nature is itself a part of it. That is what makes the idea of a spiritual angle and an after-life all the more meaningful.

The idea of the world being like a school in which difficulties are the lessons is what seems meaningful.

Yeah! But if the difficulties he imposes are, like Covid 19 at the moment,, insoluble, it just makes Him an even bigger bastard than I already thought him to be!

[Sriram]

That is like a school child cribbing that the Principal is a tyrant.  The child is not seeing the big picture in terms of his own future development.

[Outrider]

I really think that, considering the behaviour of some people during lock-down/isolation/social distancing, the fragility of life is going to continue to be demonstrated by the death-toll from this bloody disease!

Overwhelmingly, from the information that's available currently, the people dying from/with Covid-19 are people who might normally be expected to die anyway.  I'm not suggesting that there aren't young, otherwise fit people falling to the disease, but the bulk of the victims are the elderly or otherwise frail.  This is not to diminish that Covid has been involved, but when the excess mortality is determined after the fact it's going to be interesting to see exactly how much of an impact this has actually had to that figure - if 90% of the deaths have happened to people who otherwise would have died in the same period, just from something else, how much of an impact can Covid be said to have actually had?

And then someone needs to go in an try to estimate how much worse it would have been if the measures that have been successfully implemented hadn't been, and what the advise will therefore be for the next time...

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Overwhelmingly, from the information that's available currently, the people dying from/with Covid-19 are people who might normally be expected to die anyway.  I'm not suggesting that there aren't young, otherwise fit people falling to the disease, but the bulk of the victims are the elderly or otherwise frail.  This is not to diminish that Covid has been involved, but when the excess mortality is determined after the fact it's going to be interesting to see exactly how much of an impact this has actually had to that figure - if 90% of the deaths have happened to people who otherwise would have died in the same period, just from something else, how much of an impact can Covid be said to have actually had?

And then someone needs to go in an try to estimate how much worse it would have been if the measures that have been successfully implemented hadn't been, and what the advise will therefore be for the next time...

O.

Observations I would move that change nothing for the predicament of those in at risk groups. I doubt those people will be stopping to say......''You know that boy Outrider, he's got something you know''.

[Outrider]

Observations I would move that change nothing for the predicament of those in at risk groups. I doubt those people will be stopping to say......''You know that boy Outrider, he's got something you know''.

Sorry, I've been through that multiple times, and I still can't work out what it is that you're trying to say?

O.

[Roses]

Sorry, I've been through that multiple times, and I still can't work out what it is that you're trying to say?

O.

Gobbledegook is Vlad's communication device.

[ProfessorDavey]

The idea of the world being like a school in which difficulties are the lessons is what seems meaningful.

Blimey - not sure I'd send my kids to a school where 96 completely innocent kids are killed to teach the others a lesson (as in the case of Hillsborough) - or hundreds of thousand are permitted to die to teach a lesson to those that don't die (as in the case of the pandemic). I think a school like that should be closed, it's Headteacher sacked, prevented from ever being in charge of a school again and charged with criminal responsibility for those deaths.

[Sriram]

Blimey - not sure I'd send my kids to a school where 96 completely innocent kids are killed to teach the others a lesson (as in the case of Hillsborough) - or hundreds of thousand are permitted to die to teach a lesson to those that don't die (as in the case of the pandemic). I think a school like that should be closed, it's Headteacher sacked, prevented from ever being in charge of a school again and charged with criminal responsibility for those deaths.

What??

[ProfessorDavey]

What??

You claimed the relationship between god and people is like that of a teacher and pupils - that god allows (or even directs) things to happen to ensure people learn. But in my examples how are the 96 innocent, or hundreds of thousands of people affected by the decisions of that god going to learn ... as they are dead!

A teacher that permits of directs learning through untold death or suffering amongst his or her pupils would be rightly considered to be a monster and unfit to be a teacher. The same applies to a god that does the same.

[ProfessorDavey]

That is like a school child cribbing that the Principal is a tyrant.  The child is not seeing the big picture in terms of his own future development.

In the analogous examples I used, you are correct that the child won't see the big picture in terms of his own future development ... because he is dead and his death is the direct responsibility of the Principal's failure to keep that child safe.

[Sriram]

In the analogous examples I used, you are correct that the child won't see the big picture in terms of his own future development ... because he is dead and his death is the direct responsibility of the Principal's failure to keep that child safe.

Well...we have a long way to go it seems...!  Never mind! Thanks Prof D.

[Nearly Sane]

In the analogous examples I used, you are correct that the child won't see the big picture in terms of his own future development ... because he is dead and his death is the direct responsibility of the Principal's failure to keep that child safe.

I suppose though that if you believe in reincarnation as Sriram does that it isn't the end but is more like losing a life in a video game.

[Sriram]

I suppose though that if you believe in reincarnation as Sriram does that it isn't the end but is more like losing a life in a video game.

Yes....you're right, that's where I am coming from. Each life time is like a class where we learn certain lessons and move on to a higher level in the next birth. Progressively we grow and finally attain enlightenment and freedom when we pass out of this world permanently. That is my view.

But even if people don't accept reincarnation, the idea of an after-life is imperative once we talk of a God and of spiritual development.  Death cannot be the end when we talk of spiritual ideas. 

 

[ProfessorDavey]

Well...we have a long way to go it seems...!  Never mind! Thanks Prof D.

So it would appear you think the death of innocent people is a price worth paying to allow others to learn a lesson. You do indeed have a long way to go if that is your approach to ethics and morality.