Author Topic: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath  (Read 17090 times)

jeremyp

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #200 on: June 24, 2020, 07:39:20 PM »
.. but they don't all look the same! - not that I understand exactly  what "modern native" supposed to mean either...
I give up then. You define black.
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Udayana

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #201 on: June 26, 2020, 01:30:49 PM »
I give up then. You define black.

No point in another tedious discussion of what a word may or may not mean.

Whatever was meant by "the image of God" it clearly did not include skin colour or other physical characteristics.

Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

ad_orientem

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #202 on: June 27, 2020, 08:23:17 AM »
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-53201667

Just read this article and don't really know what to make of it. Part of me does think it's going too far but I also accept I don't (or can't) fully understand. Does it really matter who does the voices as long as they're good at it?
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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #203 on: June 27, 2020, 08:30:09 AM »
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-53201667

Just read this article and don't really know what to make of it. Part of me does think it's going too far but I also accept I don't (or can't) fully understand. Does it really matter who does the voices as long as they're good at it?

About time too, white actors should play white people and black actors black people.
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ad_orientem

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #204 on: June 27, 2020, 08:59:57 AM »
About time too, white actors should play white people and black actors black people.

The thing is, before the voice actors became stars, no one knew if they were black or white.
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Roses

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #205 on: June 27, 2020, 09:07:24 AM »
The thing is, before the voice actors became stars, no one knew if they were black or white.

So what? It was WRONG for white actors to play black characters.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #206 on: June 27, 2020, 09:31:44 AM »
About time too, white actors should play white people and black actors black people.
So other than Othello, no black actor will appear in Shakespeare?

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #207 on: June 28, 2020, 09:03:12 PM »
So other than Othello, no black actor will appear in Shakespeare?

And, of course it goes further than this. Should John Hurt have played Quentin Crisp?

What about able bodied people playing differently abled characters as happened via technical wizardry in JK Rowlings detective series (name of series escapes me). Now not all these issues are exactly the same as the race one, but if it is being done on the grounds of life experience or redressing the balance of representation they are close enough, then where do you stop?
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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #208 on: June 29, 2020, 06:31:05 PM »

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #209 on: June 30, 2020, 02:00:42 PM »
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-53201667

Just read this article and don't really know what to make of it. Part of me does think it's going too far but I also accept I don't (or can't) fully understand. Does it really matter who does the voices as long as they're good at it?
I remember when I was about 14 a friend made fun of how my accent used to be when they first met me when I was 9 and had moved house and left a comprehensive to start at a new school - it was a prep school. We had not been friends at the prep school but when we both moved the next year to the same private school we became best friends. And then at 14 our friendship drifted as she found interests that I was not part of and she made different friends and became interested in boys.

I was 14 and it hurt that she was making fun of the Asian accent I had had when I was 9 - I still wonder about it occasionally today but only in the context of discussing school friendships with my children. But I genuinely think that if I had been white she would have found something else to use to achieve the desired effect - she had been a very good friend previously so clearly was not racist but she was finding new friends and maybe it was a way of trying to distance herself from our friendship by making fun of me, when previously she would have been more thoughtful when we were best friends.

So having said that, I agree with this article  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-44027613 and I disagree with the statement in the article by Shilpa Davé, a professor at the University of Virginia and author of Indian Accents: Brown Voice and Racial Performance in American Television and Film:

"It's a made-up accent that makes Apu an object of racial humour because of the way he talks rather than what he is saying. The enduring characteristic that he represents is that all Indians talk with a funny and foreign accent, compared to US accents," she told me.

I think made-up accents are used for people from lots of different countries - Europeans, Australians etc and are an object of humour. I really can't see why it is worse to do a made-up accent when it is someone with different colour skin. I find it strange that people would think someone is inferior because of skin colour but I do not find it strange that people would make fun of other people for what they consider their idiosyncrasies, whether that is accent or something else. Of course it would be kinder to not make fun of anyone but I have had tears streaming down my face with laughing so hard while people were being "gently" made fun of. What I consider "gentle" might of course be very different from what someone else considers "gentle". But I would hate to see a time where we can't laugh at ourselves and in the same spirit laugh at others.

Another good school friend (white) phoned me recently and reminded me of how in the 1980s we used to call each other racist names as a joke when we were at school. She was worried I had just gone along with it because I had felt unable to object. My recollection was that I was sure my friend was not racist so I had laughed about it and joined in because it was subversive and edgy. I had not seen her as white and me brown - we were just 2 people who both appreciated a subversive joke - probably why we were friends.   
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ad_orientem

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #210 on: July 01, 2020, 11:29:22 AM »
Thanks for the reply, Gabriella, and for the link. An interesting article. Making fun of accents is something I'm familar with. My friends used to tease me about my mum's accent, even though it's a mild Finnish one. But then as a young child I used to laugh a little when my Irish nan used to say "tree" instead of "three".

As for your last paragraph, as a child I saw and was part of that kind of behaviour too. I don't think we even really understood what we were doing. Some of the most blatant racist behaviour I've seen was as a kid in the late 70's and early 80's when we lived in East London. My old man would sometimes come out with the most racist remarks, but then I also remember him going to the defence of an elderly Asian gentlemen who was receiving abuse on the estate we lived in at the time. Full of contradictions he was. I remember he had a mate, a West Indian geezer called Gilbert. They'd go out for drinks together, play cards etc. but one summer when my brother and I went to their work place all they did all day was hurl racist abuse at each other. At the time, my brother and I just found it funny. Was that normal then? Can't really say because I was too young. Times have changed in that respect, and mostly for the better, but focusing on things like the Apu character really does little, if nothing, to tackle real racism that exists in todays society.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 04:31:33 PM by ad_orientem »
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Roses

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #212 on: July 02, 2020, 06:18:42 PM »
What an evil sewer rat!
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Robbie

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #213 on: July 02, 2020, 06:30:46 PM »
Racist fuckwit

https://www.rt.com/uk/493613-david-starkey-slavery-genocide/

Never liked Starkey, arrogant twat, but am surprised at that.

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About time too, white actors should play white people and black actors black people.


No Italian should play Madama Butterfly? A Chinese-American gay male actor played that role on Broadway.

There was a Black Mikado  when I was at school, a few of us went to see it.

Carmen Jones.

Lenny Henry has done Shakespeare, not Othello.

Hugh Quarshie turned down the part of Othello when he was at school, thought it was patronising to be asked because he was black.

It all depends how it is done.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 06:34:44 PM by Robbie »
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Robbie

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jeremyp

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #216 on: July 03, 2020, 02:58:11 PM »
Racist fuckwit


https://www.rt.com/uk/493613-david-starkey-slavery-genocide/
I've always admired David Starkey for his way of popularising history, so I clicked on today's BBC story about him being fired prepared to be outraged at political correctness gone mad.

Unfortunately, it turns out he is guilty as charged.

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Nearly Sane

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #217 on: July 03, 2020, 03:13:09 PM »
I've always admired David Starkey for his way of popularising history, so I clicked on today's BBC story about him being fired prepared to be outraged at political correctness gone mad.

Unfortunately, it turns out he is guilty as charged.
It is one of those things you hear and think he can't just have sad that, and each time you listen he did say that, and it gets worse each time you hear it.

Enki

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #218 on: July 03, 2020, 04:48:53 PM »
I've always admired David Starkey for his way of popularising history, so I clicked on today's BBC story about him being fired prepared to be outraged at political correctness gone mad.

Unfortunately, it turns out he is guilty as charged.

I never really liked him, although, as you say, he did popularise history. I'm glad he's been fired/resigned, even though it was only a honorary position.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #219 on: July 06, 2020, 07:01:38 PM »
I never really liked him, although, as you say, he did popularise history. I'm glad he's been fired/resigned, even though it was only a honorary position.

Hmmm...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53308061

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #220 on: August 27, 2020, 09:47:22 AM »

I thought about starting a new thread about the shooting of Jacob Blake, and the arrest of a 17 year old as regards killings in  Kenosha but it is all part of what was triggered by George Floyd's murder. It's already prompted major walk outs in sports and is going to be a constant theme and backdrop to the US Election. Given the already dysfunctional nature of the election, the continuing effects of Covid which include many more redundancies, my posterior is shrilly cacaphonous


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53926277

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/basketball/53926764

jeremyp

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #221 on: August 27, 2020, 11:35:15 AM »
I thought about starting a new thread about the shooting of Jacob Blake, and the arrest of a 17 year old as regards killings in  Kenosha but it is all part of what was triggered by George Floyd's murder. It's already prompted major walk outs in sports and is going to be a constant theme and backdrop to the US Election. Given the already dysfunctional nature of the election, the continuing effects of Covid which include many more redundancies, my posterior is shrilly cacaphonous


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53926277

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/basketball/53926764

I really don't know what the police in the USA are thinking about. You'd think with the spotlight on them after George Floyd, they'd be a bit more careful. But this is just the latest of a whole spate of instances of police brutality some of which occurred at protests about George Floyd.

The conclusion can only be that some police officers are unusually stupid.

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Owlswing

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #222 on: August 27, 2020, 11:38:45 AM »

I really don't know what the police in the USA are thinking about. You'd think with the spotlight on them after George Floyd, they'd be a bit more careful. But this is just the latest of a whole spate of instances of police brutality some of which occurred at protests about George Floyd.

The conclusion can only be that some police officers are unusually stupid.


As are their bosses and, ultimately, their President who seems to be strangely silent on the matter.
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Roses

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #223 on: August 27, 2020, 11:40:58 AM »
It is the culture of the US to shoot first and ask questions later. >:(
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jeremyp

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Re: The death of George Floyd, and aftermath
« Reply #224 on: August 27, 2020, 11:52:35 AM »
It is the culture of the US to shoot first and ask questions later. >:(

Well, I certainly think that the prevalence of guns in the US doesn't help, but a lot of these incidents are unjustified even so.
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