The death of George Floyd, and aftermath

[Aruntraveller]

Given that HC was the clear winner of the popular vote, it can be argued that it did.

Only if you argue it also did in the past*:

Five times a candidate has won the popular vote and lost the election. Andrew Jackson in 1824 (to John Quincy Adams); Samuel Tilden in 1876 (to Rutherford B. Hayes); Grover Cleveland in 1888 (to Benjamin Harrison); Al Gore in 2000 (to George W. Bush); Hillary Clinton in 2016 (to Donald J. Trump).

*And not that I mind but why are you pulling in a post from the start of the thread back in May?!

[jeremyp]

Given that HC was the clear winner of the popular vote, it can be argued that it did.

The process that was in place worked exactly as designed. It did not break down. It's more accurate to say it's not fit for purpose, but then again, its purpose was to avoid the large states swamping the will of the small states, so you could say it is fit for purpose.

[Aruntraveller]

Effectively yes. You accused me of trying to negate racism by claiming that the police in the US seem very stupid.

I repeat:

Which bit of this is you not saying that the police are stupid as opposed to racist?

I don't think the problem with US police officers is racism so much as profound stupidity.

[jeremyp]

I repeat:

Which bit of this is you not saying that the police are stupid as opposed to racist?

You're now lying about what I wrote. Please go back and read my post again; this time for comprehension.

[Nearly Sane]

You're now lying about what I wrote. Please go back and read my post again; this time for comprehension.

I agree with trentvoyager's reading of your post.

[Nearly Sane]

Given that HC was the clear winner of the popular vote, it can be argued that it did.

Except that is allowed in the democratic process in the US.

[jeremyp]

I agree with trentvoyager's reading of your post.

Well you're famous for reading things that aren't there into other people's posts.

Anyway, let's go with this: there are many problems besetting policing in the USA at the moment. Racism is one of them as is the general prevalence of guns in the population, but overall, profound stupidity beats these out. How can it be anything other than totally moronic to handcuff a paralysed man under arrest to his bed because "procedure". How can it be anything other than totally moronic to force push a man over and then ignore him even though there is blood leaking from his ears while you are policing a demonstration against police brutality?

There is racism in the US police, but you will not be able to address it until you address the institutional stupidity.

[Aruntraveller]

Well you're famous for reading things that aren't there into other people's posts.

Anyway, let's go with this: there are many problems besetting policing in the USA at the moment. Racism is one of them as is the general prevalence of guns in the population, but overall, profound stupidity beats these out. How can it be anything other than totally moronic to handcuff a paralysed man under arrest to his bed because "procedure". How can it be anything other than totally moronic to force push a man over and then ignore him even though there is blood leaking from his ears while you are policing a demonstration against police brutality?

There is racism in the US police, but you will not be able to address it until you address the institutional stupidity.

Sounds ok.

Now what do you think I'm trying to say here:

I don't think the problem with Jeremyp is stupidity so much as being misguided.

[SteveH]

Only if you argue it also did in the past*:

Five times a candidate has won the popular vote and lost the election. Andrew Jackson in 1824 (to John Quincy Adams); Samuel Tilden in 1876 (to Rutherford B. Hayes); Grover Cleveland in 1888 (to Benjamin Harrison); Al Gore in 2000 (to George W. Bush); Hillary Clinton in 2016 (to Donald J. Trump).

*And not that I mind but why are you pulling in a post from the start of the thread back in May?!

Because when I clicked to go to the first unread post, that was what came up. I didn't notice how old it was. I haven't been following this thread recently.
The fact that it's happened before doesn't make it any less undemocratic.

[Aruntraveller]

Because when I clicked to go to the first unread post, that was what came up. I didn't notice how old it was. I haven't been following this thread recently.
The fact that it's happened before doesn't make it any less undemocratic.

As others have pointed out the smaller states were in some ways protected by this mechanism - I'm not arguing it is right just that historically that's the way it has been. For sure it needs reviewing, but that is not likely to happen any time soon given the polarised nature of US politics.

IS our system any more democratic where we get big majority's for a minority of the vote ?  That goes for both main parties.

[SteveH]

As others have pointed out the smaller states were in some ways protected by this mechanism - I'm not arguing it is right just that historically that's the way it has been. For sure it needs reviewing, but that is not likely to happen any time soon given the polarised nature of US politics.

IS our system any more democratic where we get big majority's for a minority of the vote ?  That goes for both main parties.

No - we're pretty undemocratic as well. As a start, we should introduce the single transferable vote for all elections.

[Nearly Sane]

Trump and the weaponization of soup

https://heavy.com/news/2020/09/trump-cans-of-soup-weapons/

[SusanDoris]

On anotherforum, I see there is a topic about the Kenosha shooting started by a poster who has a son living only blocks away from the Police Station there.  I shall be reading through that today.

[jeremyp]

Sounds ok.

Now what do you think I'm trying to say here:

I don't think the problem with Jeremyp is stupidity so much as being misguided.

I think you are saying you don't grasp the nuances of the situation.

[Aruntraveller]

I think you are saying you don't grasp the nuances of the situation.

I don't think so. Lectures from those of us who think in absolutist concrete terms are always welcome, but in the end useless.

[jeremyp]

I don't think so. Lectures from those of us who think in absolutist concrete terms are always welcome, but in the end useless.

But I'm not the one thinking in absolutist terms: you are.

[Aruntraveller]

But I'm not the one thinking in absolutist terms: you are.

Proof would be welcome.

[jeremyp]

Proof would be welcome.

When I said I think stupidity is the biggest problem, you leapt to the conclusion that I think racism is not a problem.

[Aruntraveller]

When I said I think stupidity is the biggest problem, you leapt to the conclusion that I think racism is not a problem.

I repeat:

I don't think the problem with US police officers is racism so much as profound stupidity.

Have it your own way though. I'm really not interested in your continued denial.

[jeremyp]

I repeat:

Have it your own way though. I'm really not interested in your continued denial.

That's jut a colloquial way to rank stupidity above racism in the list of problems that the US police has.

The statistics are difficult to quantify, but it appears that, given you are having an encounter with the police, you are as likely to end up dead if you are white as if you are black. So whatever it is that causes people interacting with police to get shot, it is not racism.

However, black people are much more likely to have an encounter with the police in the first place. That is racism, but if it ended there, you'd say black people are harassed more than whites which is bad enough, but it's not as bad as being shot.

There are two problems here that need to be resolved: the racism and the violence. Solving one is not going to solve the other.

[Nearly Sane]

Edinburgh University cancels David Hume



https://www.ed.ac.uk/news/students/2020/equality-diversity-and-inclusion-an-update

[Nearly Sane]

Edinburgh University cancels David Hume



https://www.ed.ac.uk/news/students/2020/equality-diversity-and-inclusion-an-update

This
https://uneasyessays.com/2020/09/13/remembering-hume/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[Aruntraveller]

Edinburgh University cancels David Hume



https://www.ed.ac.uk/news/students/2020/equality-diversity-and-inclusion-an-update

It is as your second link notes, a nonsense. Where will it stop? Can I demand that there should be no statues of Thatcher due to her attacks on the gay community? Of course not.

Anyway, a statue is handy for egg target practice.

[jeremyp]

It is as your second link notes, a nonsense. Where will it stop? Can I demand that there should be no statues of Thatcher due to her attacks on the gay community? Of course not.

Yes you can and I think you would have a better case than the people wanting to cancel David Hume who was a product of his time. I still think it would be generally a waste of your time though.

[Aruntraveller]

Yes you can and I think you would have a better case than the people wanting to cancel David Hume who was a product of his time. I still think it would be generally a waste of your time though.

Well yes of course I could, but I've got better things to do with my time.