Does antitheism exist?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Please don't try to pretend that you are even more obtuse than you really are! They, the members of the Coven, are those who make up the Circle!

Any more frivolous comments/questions to try and take the piss out of something you know Fuck All about and you can find someone else to answer them.

I hold my beliefs as important to me as you hold yours to you, so I resent you taking the piss out of my beliefs as you do when it is done to yours!

So, when you decide to stop being a shit-stirring ass with regard to Paganism and the Craft, come back, until then, stay away!

As I have said before. I was brought up by a seriously Christain father, so I know a bloody sight more about Christainity that you know about Paganism which is two-thirds of three-fifths of fuck all!

If you can't take it don't dish it out by being abusive about other peoples beliefs.

[Owlswing]

If you can't take it don't dish it out by being abusive about other peoples beliefs.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

I merely point out that you don't read what is actually written when you try to take the piss out of a belief that you take great pleasure in belittling but don't like it when it is done to you or your beliefs!

You have been, in the past, far more abusive than I! Pot, Kettle, Black¬!

Farewell

Bright Blessings. Love and Light, and may the Old Ones watch over you and yours always!

)O(

Owlswing - Pagan, Priest and Witch in the Third Degree.

[ProfessorDavey]

As long as there are Old holy geezers in women's clothing in the Lords I, Lords spiritual Protection man will be there to stand in the way of your nefarious schemes.

I note your careful wording Vlad.

So image a situation where the automatic seats for the bishops had been abolished, would you campaign to reinstate the 26 automatic HoLs seats for CofE bishops?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I note your careful wording Vlad.

So image a situation where the automatic seats for the bishops had been abolished, would you campaign to reinstate the 26 automatic HoLs seats for CofE bishops?

I note your lack of progress on the difference between automatically selected for the HoL and the invariably selected for the HoL. Until that happens and there remains no distinction it renders any campaign against the automatic but not the invariable silly, petty, trivial, unfair and partial

I would campaign for Lords life belief yes. The case against Humanist UK, the National Secular Society and antitheism will then be obvious once their power grab is seen for what it is.

[ProfessorDavey]

I note your lack of progress on the difference between automatically selected for the HoL and the invariably selected for the HoL. Until that happens and there remains no distinction it renders any campaign against the automatic but not the invariable silly, petty, trivial, unfair and partial

I would campaign for Lords life belief yes. The case against Humanist UK, the National Secular Society and antitheism will then be obvious once their power grab is seen for what it is.

Classic Vlad obfuscation.

You have completely failed to answer my very simply question, so I will ask it again:

'image a situation where the automatic seats for the bishops had been abolished, would you campaign to reinstate the 26 automatic HoLs seats for CofE bishops?'

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Classic Vlad obfuscation.

You have completely failed to answer my very simply question, so I will ask it again:

'image a situation where the automatic seats for the bishops had been abolished, would you campaign to reinstate the 26 automatic HoLs seats for CofE bishops?'

Throughout this debate I have made it clear that I do not want a Lords spiritual exclusively made up of bishops or even Christian's so no I would not.

Now. What about the difference between automatically selected and invariably selected? Since in the time proceeding any abolition this would be a question for those seeking the abolition of the Lords spiritual by disguising it as a protest against automatic selection.

[ProfessorDavey]

Throughout this debate I have made it clear that I do not want a Lords spiritual exclusively made up of bishops or even Christian's so no I would not.

So your support for the 26 automatic bishop places is based on nothing more than preserving the status quo and tradition. Telling.

[ProfessorDavey]

Now. What about the difference between automatically selected and invariably selected? Since in the time proceeding any abolition this would be a question for those seeking the abolition of the Lords spiritual by disguising it as a protest against automatic selection.

Given that I don't understand what you mean by those terms, first you need to explain them. I did ask you some while ago to explain what you mean by automatically selected and invariably selected but, from memory, you response was that there was no difference, which isn't a help in defining them.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

So your support for the 26 automatic bishop places is based on nothing more than preserving the status quo and tradition. Telling.

My support is for a Lords spiritual which includes skill and experience from a wider range of life beliefs. I therefore support reform rather than abolition.

I oppose any move to abolish before reform and if that means there just being the status quo then so be it.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Given that I don't understand what you mean by those terms, first you need to explain them. I did ask you some while ago to explain what you mean by automatically selected and invariably selected but, from memory, you response was that there was no difference, which isn't a help in defining them.

Since you seem to be an expert on automatic selection and invariably  selected is obvious your pleas of ignorance look a tad disingenuous.

[ProfessorDavey]

Since you seem to be an expert on automatic selection and invariably  selected is obvious your pleas of ignorance look a tad disingenuous.

I am not an expert on automatic selection and invariably selected, which is why I'm asking you to define them please, as it is you, not me, who has used these terms.

So until you actually define the terms you are banding about there is very little anyone can do to engage in this discussion.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I am not an expert on automatic selection and invariably selected, which is why I'm asking you to define them please, as it is you, not me, who has used these terms.

So until you actually define the terms you are banding about there is very little anyone can do to engage in this discussion.

There is no difference between something happening automatically and invariably. Bankers are invariably selected for the House of Lords Chairs of the bank of  zengland are invariably selected. Cof E bishops are automatically selected but are out at retirement.

[ProfessorDavey]

There is no difference between something happening automatically and invariably. Bankers are invariably selected for the House of Lords Chairs of the bank of  zengland are invariably selected. Cof E bishops are automatically selected but are out at retirement.

For crying out loud Vlad - we've been through this. There is no equivalence between CofE bishops and bankers because:

1. There are no automatic places in the HoLs for bankers, there are automatic places for bishops.
2. For a banker to be given a seat they'd have to satisfy the standard nomination and appointment processes - bishops do not have to go through any HoLs appointment process - they automatically get a seat.
3. As far as I'm aware no serving Governor of the Bank of England (certainly in recent times) has ever had a seat in the HoLs and certainly didn't get one automatically when he was appointed. By contrast every ABoC (and other bishops) have been given an automatic seat in the HoL by virtue of being appointed to that role.

The only (near) equivalence is that some Governors of the Bank of England have been appointed to the HoL after they retired from the role - as far as I'm aware (and certain in recent times) all ABoC have been appointed (or rather re-appointed) to the HoL after they retired from the role.

The automatic seats for the bishops represents a special privilege for the CofE that no other organisation has.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

For crying out loud Vlad - we've been through this. There is no equivalence between CofE bishops and bankers because:

1. There are no automatic places in the HoLs for bankers, there are automatic places for bishops.
2. For a banker to be given a seat they'd have to satisfy the standard nomination and appointment processes - bishops do not have to go through any HoLs appointment process - they automatically get a seat.
3. As far as I'm aware no serving Governor of the Bank of England (certainly in recent times) has ever had a seat in the HoLs and certainly didn't get one automatically when he was appointed. By contrast every ABoC (and other bishops) have been given an automatic seat in the HoL by virtue of being appointed to that role.

The only (near) equivalence is that some Governors of the Bank of England have been appointed to the HoL after they retired from the role - as far as I'm aware (and certain in recent times) all ABoC have been appointed (or rather re-appointed) to the HoL after they retired from the role.

The automatic seats for the bishops represents a special privilege for the CofE that no other organisation has.

I think it is all Governors of the Bank of England. except for the most recent incumbent and we can expect his time to come. You cannot face then the question of invariable appointment......why because when factored in it highlights the disingenuous appeal to automatic selection as a pretext for the elimination of spirituality from the public forum. There is no difference between automatic appointments and invariable appointments since that is the way the HoL has derived it's experience.

Since professions and professional positions are invariable routes to the HoL what objection therefore do you have to spiritual leaders enjoying invariable selection?

[ProfessorDavey]

I think it is all Governors of the Bank of England. except for the most recent incumbent and we can expect his time to come.

You are totally wrong - no Governors of the Bank of England have been automatically appointed to the HoLs on the basis of being appointed to their role as Governor. Every ABofC is automatically appointed to the HoLs on the basis of being appointed to their role as archbishop.

And that's before you factor in the 25 other bishops automatically appointed. If the Bank of England had the same special privileges as the CofE then I image one of my friends would be automatically a member of the HoLs as I think his role is certainly one of the most senior 26 positions in the Bank of England.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You are totally wrong - no Governors of the Bank of England have been automatically appointed to the HoLs on the basis of being appointed to their role as Governor. Every ABofC is automatically appointed to the HoLs on the basis of being appointed to their role as archbishop.

And that's before you factor in the 25 other bishops automatically appointed. If the Bank of England had the same special privileges as the CofE then I image one of my friends would be automatically a member of the HoLs as I think his role is certainly one of the most senior 26 positions in the Bank of England.

You can't even bring yourself to address the fact that professions and positions are invariably selected for the House of Lords. For the second time of asking do you agree that Spiritual leaders should similarly be invariably selected?

Automatic selection sounds positively heinous until you stop the turdpolishing and realise that there are many many professions and positions which are an invariable route to the House of lords

[ProfessorDavey]

You can't even bring yourself to address the fact that professions and positions are invariably selected for the House of Lords.

The only profession that is afforded the special privilege of automatic seats in the HoLs is CofE bishops.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The only profession that is afforded the special privilege of automatic seats in the HoLs is CofE bishops.

And yet Governors of the Bank of England invariably get into the House of Lords as do Bankers, politicians, Archbishops, Military people, entertainers, hereditary peers.

What objection do you have to spiritual leaders  being invariably selected for the House of Lords?

[Sebastian Toe]

And yet Governors of the Bank of England invariably get into the House of Lords as do Bankers, politicians, Archbishops, Military people, entertainers, hereditary peers.

What objection do you have to spiritual leaders  being invariably selected for the House of Lords?

I'm not sure but are you advocating that the reserved seats be abolished as the Bishops would invariably be selected anyway, just as bankers etc are now?

[ProfessorDavey]

And yet Governors of the Bank of England invariably get into the House of Lords ...

No they don't - please tell us the last time that a Governor of the Bank of England (note not an ex Governor of the Bank of England) was appointed a member of the HoLs.

Note that ABofC are automatically given a seat in the HoLs, and ex ABofC are also invariable appointed to the HofL as well.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No they don't - please tell us the last time that a Governor of the Bank of England (note not an ex Governor of the Bank of England) was appointed a member of the HoLs.

Note that ABofC are automatically given a seat in the HoLs, and ex ABofC are also invariable appointed to the HofL as well.

You are stalling Davey.Ex Governers of the bank of England INVARIABLY enter the HoL.

For the umpteenth time of asking. What have you got against spiritual leaders INVARIABLY entering the HoL?

[ProfessorDavey]

You are stalling Davey.Ex Governers of the bank of England INVARIABLY enter the HoL.

For the umpteenth time of asking. What have you got against spiritual leaders INVARIABLY entering the HoL?

Archbishops of Canterbury are automatically appointed members of the HoL. Governors of the Bank of England are never appointed members of the HoL.

Ex-Archbishops of Canterbury are always appointed members of the HoL. Ex-Governors of the Bank of England are often appointed members of the HoL.

Archbishops of York (de facto deputy) are automatically appointed members of the HoL. Deputy Governors of the Bank of England are never appointed members of the HoL.

Ex-Archbishops of York are nearly always appointed members of the HoL. Ex-deputy Governors of the Bank of England are rarely (if ever) appointed members of the HoL.

Repeat special privilege 24 more times.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Archbishops of Canterbury are automatically appointed members of the HoL. Governors of the Bank of England are never appointed members of the HoL.

Ex-Archbishops of Canterbury are always appointed members of the HoL. Ex-Governors of the Bank of England are often appointed members of the HoL.

Archbishops of York (de facto deputy) are automatically appointed members of the HoL. Deputy Governors of the Bank of England are never appointed members of the HoL.

Ex-Archbishops of York are nearly always appointed members of the HoL. Ex-deputy Governors of the Bank of England are rarely (if ever) appointed members of the HoL.

Repeat special privilege 24 more times.

Which Ex Governer did not make it into the House of Lords?

[ProfessorDavey]

Which Ex Governer did not make it into the House of Lords?

Err Mark Carney - I've not heard any suggestion that he will be appointed to the Lords, and his predecessor was appointed to the Lord the same month as he stepped down as Governor.

But that is beside the point - even if all ex governors and all ex ABofC are appointed to the Lords it still doesn't change the fact that ABofC (and York, Durham, London, Winchester, plus 21 other bishops) are automatically appointed to the Lords by virtue of their current role in the CoE. No bankers have the same special privilege and there is not a special category of members reserved solely for bankers in the manner of the Lords spiritual which is reserves solely for CofE bishops.
 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Err Mark Carney - I've not heard any suggestion that he will be appointed to the Lords, and his predecessor was appointed to the Lord the same month as he stepped down as Governor.

But that is beside the point - even if all ex governors and all ex ABofC are appointed to the Lords it still doesn't change the fact that ABofC (and York, Durham, London, Winchester, plus 21 other bishops) are automatically appointed to the Lords by virtue of their current role in the CoE. No bankers have the same special privilege and there is not a special category of members reserved solely for bankers in the manner of the Lords spiritual which is reserves solely for CofE bishops.
 

Mark Carney........who has just left the post.
Is he not a Canadian also?

Of course it isn't beside the point. So for the umpteenth and one time .....why are you against spiritual leaders invariably being selected for the HoL.

Take another group who seem to be invariably selected. Show business. Is Loyd Webber forbidden from composing ...is Michael Cashman forbidden from acting?