Is it any wonder that anti-theism exists?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Are you saying that they did it because they were atheist, though, because unless you are the 'atheist' bit is irrelevant.

O.

I'm saying that if atheists think they can offer good things to humanity like charity,liberation, enlightenment, progressthe they can also inflict the bad stuff.

[Outrider]

I'm saying that if atheists think they can offer good things to humanity like charity,liberation, enlightenment, progressthe they can also inflict the bad stuff.

And I'm not aware that anyone's saying that they can't or don't, but I am asking if you think any of that is comparably BECAUSE of atheism, as opposed to the situations I've described where people's actions were EXPLICITLY justified and motivated by their Christianity?

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

And I'm not aware that anyone's saying that they can't or don't, but I am asking if you think any of that is comparably BECAUSE of atheism, as opposed to the situations I've described where people's actions were EXPLICITLY justified and motivated by their Christianity?

Explicit?, implicit? If atheists say that they can offer good things like charity, or that it is only when abrahamic faith is replaced by people becoming atheist that we can improve the lot of humanity then that is motivation by atheism. Ergo, if the Atheist community of Austin make an excuse that they haven't had time to chalk up as much giving as say the Catholics, then they haven't had the time to dish out the bad stuff. 

[Outrider]

Explicit?, implicit? If atheists say that they can offer good things like charity, or that it is only when abrahamic faith is replaced by people becoming atheist that we can improve the lot of humanity then that is motivation by atheism.

Do you have anyone making that claim? Of course atheists are capable of charity, everyone is capable of charity.  I'd argue that it's as impossible to justify charity BECAUSE of atheism as it is to justify the systematic murder of millions of Soviet citizens BECAUSE of atheism.

By contrast, there's any number of people out their using their religion to justify charity, but also to justify homophobia and racism and sexism and nationalism and all sorts of other despicable issues.

So, again, atheists are exactly as capable of showing any behaviour you'd like to come up with as anyone else, but can you show why you think their atheism has anything to do with those behaviours?

Ergo, if the Atheist community of Austin make an excuse that they haven't had time to chalk up as much giving as say the Catholics, then they haven't had the time to dish out the bad stuff.

If you have issue with something someone else somewhere else has said take it up with them.

O.

[Owlswing]

Explicit?, implicit? If atheists say that they can offer good things like charity, or that it is only when Abrahamic faith is replaced by people becoming atheist that we can improve the lot of humanity then that is motivation by atheism. Ergo, if the Atheist Community of Austin make an excuse that they haven't had time to chalk up as much giving as say the Catholics, then they haven't had the time to dish out the bad stuff.

Considering that Christianity has had two thousand years to convince mankind that it is the best thing since long before sliced bread I would say that the fact that atheists and the adherents of all the non-Christian religions outnumber Christians by who-knows-how-many-to-one shows that they have been doing a pretty piss-poor job of it!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Considering that Christianity has had two thousand years to convince mankind that it is the best thing since long before sliced bread I would say that the fact that atheists and the adherents of all the non-Christian religions outnumber Christians by who-knows-how-many-to-one shows that they have been doing a pretty piss-poor job of it!

Argumentum ad populum.

Do you have anyone making that claim?

Atheists of Austin defended atheist giving compared with Christian giving. Richard Dawkins foundation started or supported ''Atheist Giving'' Charity;

[Outrider]

Atheists of Austin defended atheist giving compared with Christian giving.

Right.  Were they alleging that atheists were giving because of their atheism?

Richard Dawkins foundation started or supported ''Atheist Giving'' Charity;

Yes, because they wanted to show that the claim 'atheists are uncharitable' was nonsense.  Did they start or support charities BECAUSE of their atheism?

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Right.  Were they alleging that atheists were giving because of their atheism?

Yes, That's what Atheist giving is. The Atheists of Austin were not only equating themselves with the Christians in terms of being a team involved in a competition, they even claimed it wasn't a level playing field.

[Outrider]

Yes, That's what Atheist giving is.

No, it isn't. Atheist giving, if it's a thing at all, is people giving because they're charitable and pointing out to those who vilify them that being an atheist doesn't mean they're in any way prohibited or restricted from doing so.  They don't give BECAUSE they're atheists, or DESPITE their atheism, they give because they're human - they sometime advertise that they've done it because of the way they're depicted by some believers.

When they set up explicitly atheist charities its' either for that purpose, or so that people have somewhere they can give where they know their donations won't clandestinely be used to support - even indirectly - religious movements that they don't agree with.

The Atheists of Austin were not only equating themselves with the Christians in terms of being a team involved in a competition, they even claimed it wasn't a level playing field.

Neither of which starts to suggest that their motivation for giving was their atheism - it doesn't even show that their motivation for advertising their charitable activity was atheism.

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No, it isn't. Atheist giving, if it's a thing at all, is people giving because they're charitable and pointing out to those who vilify them that being an atheist doesn't mean they're in any way prohibited or restricted from doing so.

eh?

  They don't give BECAUSE they're atheists, or DESPITE their atheism, they give because they're human

That'll be why it's atheist giving then -

they sometime advertise that they've done it because of the way they're depicted by some believers.

So they want us to know this is atheist giving but that's purely the fault of Christians.......they made them do it.



O. Fucking Hell,

[Outrider]

eh?  That'll be why it's atheist giving then -

What is this 'atheist giving' that you've invented?

So they want us to know this is atheist giving but that's purely the fault of Christians.......they made them do it.

No, they did it because they're decent people.  They advertise it because it turns out some religious people can be a bit judgy...

Still nothing on explaining how people might claim to be giving (or hurting or discriminating or indeed anything else) because of their atheism as a counter to how people do such things because of their religion?

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What is this 'atheist giving' that you've invented?

No, they did it because they're decent people.  They advertise it because it turns out some religious people can be a bit judgy...

Still nothing on explaining how people might claim to be giving (or hurting or discriminating or indeed anything else) because of their atheism as a counter to how people do such things because of their religion?

O.

Atheist giving i believed changed their handle to something like non believers giving aid.

Had the Atheists of Austin started by saying there is no such thing as atheist giving it's humans giving. Then maybe you have a case but no they immediately made an excuse for why team atheism was behind the curve. Hey blame it on the christians after all the Atheists of Austin got flabby on a diet of Dumb Ass Fundamentalists.

I was just looking at a site which announced that the charity that collected the greatest amount in one year was an atheist charity.....whoopie....well done Atheists 1 Christians 0.

[Outrider]

Atheist giving i believed changed their handle to something like non believers giving aid.

OK.

Had the Atheists of Austin started by saying there is no such thing as atheist giving it's humans giving. Then maybe you have a case but no they immediately made an excuse for why team atheism was behind the curve.

You've still not explained how you, or they if that's your thing - think that their charitable donations are a result of their atheism.  Nor have you established that their advertising their charitable donations is a result of their atheism rather than a response to other people's view of their atheism.

Hey blame it on the christians after all the Atheists of Austin got flabby on a diet of Dumb Ass Fundamentalists.

Whether or not they had a point about who was giving and when is irrelevant to the point we were discussing, which is whether atheism is the motivator behind these behaviours in the same way that religion often is.

I was just looking at a site which announced that the charity that collected the greatest amount in one year was an atheist charity.....whoopie....well done Atheists 1 Christians 0.

Oooh, look, distraction Carnifex! http://miniaturepainters.com/tyranid-carnifex/

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

OK.

You've still not explained how you, or they if that's your thing - think that their charitable donations are a result of their atheism.  Nor have you established that their advertising their charitable donations is a result of their atheism rather than a response to other people's view of their atheism.

Whether or not they had a point about who was giving and when is irrelevant to the point we were discussing, which is whether atheism is the motivator behind these behaviours in the same way that religion often is.

Oooh, look, distraction Carnifex! http://miniaturepainters.com/tyranid-carnifex/

O.

Funny you mentioning atheists and charity.
My own searches just seem to be around 2010-2011. A description of what motivates atheist giving and how it isn't religious people giving is on Myers site Pharyngula for 2011.

Seems to me that the Golden age of atheist giving has long since passed and seems to coincide with the time New Atheism was ridin' high. I stand to be corrected of course.

[Roses]

Funny you mentioning atheists and charity.
My own searches just seem to be around 2010-2011. A description of what motivates atheist giving and how it isn't religious people giving is on Myers site Pharyngula for 2011.

Seems to me that the Golden age of atheist giving has long since passed and seems to coincide with the time New Atheism was ridin' high. I stand to be corrected of course.

If a prize was awarded to the person whose gibberish knew no bounds, you would win it fair and square.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

If

(z)

a prize

(zz)

was awarded

(zzz)

to the person

(zzzz)

whose gibberish

(zzzzz)

knew no bounds,

(zzzzzz)

you would win it fair and square.

(zzzzzzzzzzzz)

[Roses]

(z) (zz)  (zzz) (zzzz)(zzzzz)(zzzzzz)(zzzzzzzzzzzz)

I rest my case.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I rest my case.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Owlswing]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

The normal reaction of everybody else on the entire Forum to the never-ending river of drivel and bull-shit of someone who cannot see that everyone else has been trying to tell him that he has, for ages, been talking complete and utter bollocks!

People far more knowledgable than I have explained in ways that even an incompetent debater like me can understand and he still writes acres of drivel.

I offer my thanks to Outrider for his erudition and my condolences for the way it has been dismissed in the usual cavalier Christian way with anything they don't like or choose not to believe.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The normal reaction of everybody else on the entire Forum to the never-ending river of drivel and bull-shit of someone who cannot see that everyone else has been trying to tell him that he has, for ages, been talking complete and utter bollocks!

Don't be too hard on yourself.

[Owlswing]

Don't be too hard on yourself.

Don't try and be something that you are not - a wit and comedian-

I say this knowing full well that it is going to be edited as a derail, something at which you are a true professional, but I shall be edited in the sure and certain knowledge that you started it because you consider yourself to be my intellectual superior,

You may well be, but on this thread and various others, you still talk bullshit and bollocks!

Arrogance will never take the place of intelligence and bullshit will never baffle brains - it might baffle me but there are at least four on here that leave you in their intellectual dust.

[Outrider]

Funny you mentioning atheists and charity.
My own searches just seem to be around 2010-2011. A description of what motivates atheist giving and how it isn't religious people giving is on Myers site Pharyngula for 2011.

Seems to me that the Golden age of atheist giving has long since passed and seems to coincide with the time New Atheism was ridin' high. I stand to be corrected of course.

I don't see the bit in there which links the motivation of atheist givers to their atheism... still...

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I don't see the bit in there which links the motivation of atheist givers to their atheism... still...

O.

Tell me Outrider, was it atheism that motivated the atheist bus campaign or charity?....and if it was just a human act of charity, what anyone would do? how come atheism came into it?

Why label it as non believers giving?

[Outrider]

Tell me Outrider, was it atheism that motivated the atheist bus campaign or charity?

Probably neither, but rather a sense of disquiet at the influence of the religious in the political sphere.

Why label it as non believers giving?

In response to assertions from certain religious people that, amongst other traits depicted as unwholesome, atheists were not generous or community minded.

O.

[Theoretical Skeptic]

Considering the number of people murdered, massacred, quietly disposed of, tortured, maimed in the name of Christianity, in all its forms, would it not take a miracle for anti-theism NOT to exist!

Maybe. The same could be said of many things. Democracy, love, politics, money, land, power. Theism, including Christianity, is just another tool in the hands of mankind.