Author Topic: Disproofs of God.  (Read 41707 times)

Stranger

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #350 on: August 09, 2020, 10:00:07 AM »
When every body's agreed we are in unfalsifiable and speculation country can Burden of proof really be used as a get out of jail free card if your speculation goes tits up? I'm not sure.

Of course you're not because you simply don't get the burden of proof at all, do you?

Anyway, you are the one here who is proposing a specific idea that there is a (singular) necessary entity and it can be identified as some sort of (undefined) notion of "God". This is clearly your burden of proof. What's missing from you is any sort of coherent definitions or anything remotely like an argument. You won't address the objections to your claims and you won't even define your terms.

All you are doing is trying to get other people to make suggestions and then criticise them. Classic Vled burden of proof shifting.
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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #351 on: August 09, 2020, 10:21:31 AM »
Vlad:

Quote
When every body's agreed we are in unfalsifiable and speculation country...

Me:

Quote
He’ll send in his
Brigades of straw men

He’ll even hit the roof
But forever it’ll be lost on him
That his is the burden of proof

Uncanny.
 
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God

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #352 on: August 09, 2020, 10:58:39 AM »
Vlad:

Me:

Uncanny.
 
Nothing gained here Hillside since by proof you mean empirical proof. We know this due to your apparent blindness and incomprehension of ''argument''. Something in your book which can be simultaneously not given and appallingly bad at the same time.

Stranger

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #353 on: August 09, 2020, 11:02:53 AM »
Nothing gained here Hillside since by proof you mean empirical proof.

Oh look, another straw man.
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #354 on: August 09, 2020, 11:11:43 AM »
Oh look, another straw man.
No yours is a straw man since I acknowledged I was stupid enough to be hustled by an atheist drilled in tactics to get me to get the burden of proof at some time on this board.

I have therefore accepted my burden of proof.
Since many of you think that even expressions of belief have a BOP I therefore merely ask those people take on their BOP.

And those who do not think that mere belief carries a BOP should STF........IMHO
« Last Edit: August 09, 2020, 11:15:10 AM by The Suppository of Norman Wisdom »

Roses

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #355 on: August 09, 2020, 11:17:46 AM »
No yours is a straw man since I acknowledged I was stupid enough to be hustled by an atheist drilled in tactics to get me to get the burden of proof at some time on this board.

I have therefore accepted my burden of proof.
Since many of you think that even expressions of belief have a BOP I therefore merely ask those people take on their BOP.

And those who do not think that mere belief carries a BOP should STF........IMHO

OH DEAR! ::)
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Stranger

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #356 on: August 09, 2020, 11:20:57 AM »
No yours is a straw man since I acknowledged I was stupid enough to be hustled by an atheist drilled in tactics to get me to get the burden of proof at some time on this board.

I have therefore accepted by burden of proof.
Since many of you think that even expressions of belief have a BOP I therefore merely ask those people take on their BOP.

And you still don't get it.

Expressions of a blind faith belief doesn't have a burden of proof (but you can't expect anybody else to accept them), claims, that you expect others to accept, do. Suggestions for possible alternatives to somebody's claim, only have to be self-consistent in order to undermine a positive claim, they don't have any burden of proof beyond that.

You (at least appear) to be making a specific claim, namely, that there is a necessary entity that can be identified with some version of "God". You have not provided an argument for it or even properly defined the terms. All you're doing is trying to treat people's suggestions for alternative as if they were making positive claims.

This really isn't rocket science FFS.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #357 on: August 09, 2020, 11:23:11 AM »
Thank you. It seems that having quoted that there are two types of entities. Davey now seems to be informing us that there is no difference between them. That which he quotes clearly gives the distinction.
The difference is the context.

You cannot say that an entity is necessary or not without also stating what it is necessary for - in other words the context.

So use the child/parent example (the context). If I exist then my father cannot fail to exist and therefore my father is a necessary entity. If I do not exist then my father can exist or not, so is a contingent entity.

If we change the context and talk about the existence of the universe - my father is not necessary for the universe to exist, so my father could exist or could not exist in the context of the existence of the universe. My father is a contingent entity in that context.

In each case the characteristics of my father are identical, but depending on the context my father may be a necessary entity or a contingent one.

It isn't rocket science.

And while we are on the parent/child context lets nail your nonsense that there can only be one necessary entity. Clearly is I exist then my father is a necessary entity, but if I exist then my mother is a necessary entity too. And if I exist a functioning uterus is a necessary entity as are a whole range of other entities, e.g. oxygen, water etc etc. There are many necessary entities if I exist.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #358 on: August 09, 2020, 11:25:43 AM »
Vlad:

Quote
Nothing gained here Hillside since by proof you mean empirical proof. We know this due to your apparent blindness and incomprehension of ''argument''. Something in your book which can be simultaneously not given and appallingly bad at the same time.

Me:

Quote
He’ll send in his
Brigades of straw men

He’ll even hit the roof
But forever it’ll be lost on him
That his is the burden of proof

Uncanny redux.
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #359 on: August 09, 2020, 11:27:09 AM »
And you still don't get it.

Expressions of a blind faith belief doesn't have a burden of proof (but you can't expect anybody else to accept them), claims, that you expect others to accept, do. Suggestions for possible alternatives to somebody's claim, only have to be self-consistent in order to undermine a positive claim, they don't have any burden of proof beyond that.

You (at least appear) to be making a specific claim, namely, that there is a necessary entity that can be identified with some version of "God". You have not provided an argument for it or even properly defined the terms. All you're doing is trying to treat people's suggestions for alternative as if they were making positive claims.

This really isn't rocket science FFS.
yes we all know that. And I have admitted my burden which you seem oblivious to.

If you do not claim that I am wrong in my claim then I absolve you and you can fuck off on your own sweet way. The trouble is there are thousands of posts where you guys claim my argument is bad, wrong, and that I have never made an argument.......... often by the same people.

I have ceased though to do anything more for you and see this board as a platform for my ideas and my message. It has been also useful for the monitoring and demonstrating thephenomenon of Goddodgery.

Stranger

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #360 on: August 09, 2020, 11:33:44 AM »
yes we all know that. And I have admitted my burden which you seem oblivious to.

So where's your argument?

If you do not claim that I am wrong in my claim then I absolve you and you can fuck off on your own sweet way.

My claim is that you have gone no way towards making a case for it. A few hand-waving assertions and vague hints that an argument exists, do not constitute an argument.

It has been also useful for the monitoring and demonstrating thephenomenon of Goddodgery.

Something else you've never once tried to support with any sort of coherent argument.
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #361 on: August 09, 2020, 11:37:02 AM »
So where's your argument?

I think we have been through this before.

Stranger

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #362 on: August 09, 2020, 11:38:34 AM »
I think we have been through this before.

Yes Vlad, I keep asking for one and you keep dodging or ignoring it.
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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #363 on: August 09, 2020, 11:49:20 AM »
Stranger,

Quote
Yes Vlad, I keep asking for one and you keep dodging or ignoring it.

He's never made an actual argument to justify his beliefs and he never will. Misrepresenting or throwing insults at the falsifying arguments he can't address is all he has. 'twas ever thus and 'twill ever be.   
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God

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #364 on: August 09, 2020, 11:50:07 AM »
Yes Vlad, I keep asking for one and you keep dodging or ignoring it.
I don't think anything has been ignored, You've had Contingency, simulated universe, The moral argument.

All over the world these debates are raging except in Essex where ''it's been settled roight and if your not happy then you can french kiss with shotguns''

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #365 on: August 09, 2020, 11:52:39 AM »
Correction:

"He's never made an actual argument that isn't shit to justify his beliefs and he never will. Misrepresenting or throwing insults at the falsifying arguments he can't address is all he has. 'twas ever thus and 'twill ever be."
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Stranger

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #366 on: August 09, 2020, 11:56:54 AM »
I don't think anything has been ignored, You've had Contingency, simulated universe, The moral argument.

We've had none of those from you - and the idiotic inclusion of the SU just underlines that you haven't even got a consistent definition of the god you're trying to argue for.

Ignoring the total idiocy of SU, where are the specific versions of these other two arguments that you're prepared to get behind? Why not present them yourself, one thread for each maybe, with a proper summary of the premises and logical steps?
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Roses

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #367 on: August 09, 2020, 11:57:36 AM »
It is very sad that Vlad gets his kicks winding up other posters with his drivel.
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #368 on: August 09, 2020, 12:02:47 PM »
Correction:

"He's never made an actual argument that isn't shit to justify his beliefs and he never will. Misrepresenting or throwing insults at the falsifying arguments he can't address is all he has. 'twas ever thus and 'twill ever be."
Are you going to 1) apologise then for your utterly appalling and continued misrepresentation which can best be described as Utter stupidity of the most moronic order.

2)now you have described the answers given as ''shit'', acknowledge, here and now your burden of proof on those claims.

jeremyp

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #369 on: August 09, 2020, 12:06:17 PM »
It is very sad that Vlad gets his kicks winding up other posters with his drivel.
Having read the last couple of pages, I would say that Vlad is the one currently getting wound up.
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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #370 on: August 09, 2020, 12:11:08 PM »
Vlad: “Here are the names of the arguments for “God” William Lane Craig tries.”

Rational people: “But they’re terrible arguments and here’s why.”

Vlad: “Here are the names of the arguments for “God” William Lane Craig tries.”

Rational people: “Yes we know, you’ve told us that and we’ve told you why they’re wrong. Can you set out why you think the falsifications you’ve been given are wrong?”

Vlad: “Er, WLC is my guy and I have no idea why your falsifications could be wrong so I’ll just lie about them or throw insults at them and hope no-one notices I’m screwed.”

Rational people: “Tantrum over? OK, so do you have any arguments to justify your belief “God” that aren’t shit?”

Vlad: “Checkmate!”   
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #371 on: August 09, 2020, 12:12:10 PM »
Having read the last couple of pages, I would say that Vlad is the one currently getting wound up.
Yes Jeremy, but if I remember correctly didn't you also say ''the universe just is'' ?

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #372 on: August 09, 2020, 12:14:10 PM »
Vlad: “Here are the names of the arguments for “God” William Lane Craig tries.”

Rational people: “But they’re terrible arguments and here’s why.”

Vlad: “Here are the names of the arguments for “God” William Lane Craig tries.”

Rational people: “Yes we know, you’ve told us that and we’ve told you why they’re wrong. Can you set out why you think the falsifications you’ve been given are wrong?”

Vlad: “Er, WLC is my guy and I have no idea why your falsifications could be wrong so I’ll just lie about them or throw insults at them and hope no-one notices I’m screwed.”

Rational people: “Tantrum over? OK, so do you have any arguments to justify your belief “God” that aren’t shit?”

Vlad: “Checkmate!”
Are you going to 1) apologise then for your utterly appalling and continued misrepresentation which can best be described as Utter stupidity of the most moronic order.

2)now you have described the answers given as ''shit'', acknowledge, here and now your burden of proof on those claims.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #373 on: August 09, 2020, 12:14:29 PM »

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Disproofs of God.
« Reply #374 on: August 09, 2020, 12:19:14 PM »
NS,

Quote
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pigeon_chess

To his credit, at least Vlad has Grand Master status.
"Don't make me come down there."

God