Football 2020 - 2021

[jeremyp]

This is obviously loose change to Ozil but it's a nice gesture


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54440357

They're questioning Gunnersaurus's experience and I agree. I think he's a bit green.

[Nearly Sane]

So Scotland after a rank match and first penalty shootout are one match away from qualifying for their first major international tournament in 22 years. Pity that Serbia look quite good.

[Nearly Sane]

Interesting stuff on possible reforms


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54499998

[Nearly Sane]

Big win for England over Belgium

[ad_orientem]

Interesting stuff on possible reforms


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54499998

Horrible propsal.

[jeremyp]

Big win for England over Belgium

Belgium who are #1 in the World apparently.

[ProfessorDavey]

Belgium who are #1 in the World apparently.

Why add the word apparently as if it is some how a surprise that Belgium are number one in the FIFA rankings - they have been for the best part of 2 years I think.

[ProfessorDavey]

Big win for England over Belgium

Indeed - I think a lot of us were surprised by the team England put out, but they certainly did a job, albeit with a bit of luck. Sometimes you just need to win, even if you win ugly.

[jeremyp]

Why add the word apparently as if it is some how a surprise that Belgium are number one in the FIFA rankings

Because it is surprising, to me at least.

Seriously, reading the reports in the run up to the England - Belgium match was the first time I heard it.

[ProfessorDavey]

Because it is surprising, to me at least.

Seriously, reading the reports in the run up to the England - Belgium match was the first time I heard it.

Really?!? Suggests to me you don't pay much attention to football. Belgium have been number one since late 2018. I think anyone who actually bothers to follow football would have known they were number one.

But then you are a bit more of a rugger chap aren't you Jeremy?

[ProfessorDavey]

Big win for England over Belgium

I wonder if Belgium will suffer from the Euros being kicked back from 2020 to 2021. I think they'd have been in absolute poll position to win had the tournament been held this summer, given their record over the past couple of years. However I wonder whether a further year might mean they had gone beyond their peak. The very best teams carefully plan towards a tournament and having it delayed can thrown that off.

[jeremyp]

Really?!? Suggests to me you don't pay much attention to football. Belgium have been number one since late 2018. I think anyone who actually bothers to follow football would have known they were number one.

Who is the number one team in the World is only of passing interest. What actually matters to me is who is going to win/has just won the Wold Cup or European Championships. I'd think of beating France as a bigger achievement than beating Belgium.

But then you are a bit more of a rugger chap aren't you Jeremy?

The Six Nations is, as you know, the greatest sporting tournament in the World.

[ProfessorDavey]

Who is the number one team in the World is only of passing interest. What actually matters to me is who is going to win/has just won the Wold Cup or European Championships. I'd think of beating France as a bigger achievement than beating Belgium.

Which shows you really aren't paying attention. The rankings effectively work out the best team across a whole range of matches, competitions etc. France briefly were number one shortly after their world cup win, but since then they have drifted back, currently being ranked 2nd. On that basis Belgium are a harder team to beat. And I think anyone looking at the wealth of talent Belgium have had over the past couple of years would understand that they are worthy top dogs in the rankings at the moment.

[jeremyp]

Which shows you really aren't paying attention. The rankings effectively work out the best team across a whole range of matches, competitions etc. France briefly were number one shortly after their world cup win, but since then they have drifted back, currently being ranked 2nd. On that basis Belgium are a harder team to beat. And I think anyone looking at the wealth of talent Belgium have had over the past couple of years would understand that they are worthy top dogs in the rankings at the moment.

Would you rather England were ranked number one for a couple of years or won the World Cup? Would you rather be a France supporter of a Belgium supporter?

[ProfessorDavey]

Would you rather England were ranked number one for a couple of years or won the World Cup? Would you rather be a France supporter of a Belgium supporter?

We aren't talking about fans' views but rankings based on results.

[jeremyp]

We aren't talking about fans' views but rankings based on results.

We're talking about why I was unaware that Belgium was ranked number one in the World. Part of my explanation for that gap in my knowledge is that the rankings are not that important as far as fans are concerned. So yes, we are talking about fans' views.

[ProfessorDavey]

We're talking about why I was unaware that Belgium was ranked number one in the World. Part of my explanation for that gap in my knowledge is that the rankings are not that important as far as fans are concerned. So yes, we are talking about fans' views.

No we are talking about your view (who doesn't really seem to be much of a fan) - don't tar other fans with your lack of knowledge.

I imagine most real fans have a good understanding about the rankings, will have known in advance of last night's game that Belgium were number one in the world. Not least because it matters in terms both of the competition last night's game was part of (the Nations League), but also importantly which group teams end up in the the group stages of both the Euros and the World Cup.

[Nearly Sane]

No we are talking about your view (who doesn't really seem to be much of a fan) - don't tar other fans with your lack of knowledge.

I imagine most real fans have a good understanding about the rankings, will have known in advance of last night's game that Belgium were number one in the world. Not least because it matters in terms both of the competition last night's game was part of (the Nations League), but also importantly which group teams end up in the the group stages of both the Euros and the World Cup.

'Real fans' here is a No True Scotsman

[ProfessorDavey]

'Real fans' here is a No True Scotsman

Fair enough, although the point remains.

You really can't have been paying attention if you claim to be a football fan, yet haven't recognised that over the past few years Belgium have been right at the top of the heap in terms of world rankings. Even if you hadn't realised they've been ranked 1st for the past 2 years (in which case where have you been) it surely wouldn't have been a surprise to discover they are ranked top - unless you haven't been paying attention and aren't really that interested in football.

[Nearly Sane]

Fair enough, although the point remains.

You really can't have been paying attention if you claim to be a football fan, yet haven't recognised that over the past few years Belgium have been right at the top of the heap in terms of world rankings. Even if you hadn't realised they've been ranked 1st for the past 2 years (in which case where have you been) it surely wouldn't have been a surprise to discover they are ranked top - unless you haven't been paying attention and aren't really that interested in football.

That's  just you  repeating your No True Scotsman changing 'real fana' into 'aren't really that interested in football'.

[ProfessorDavey]

That's  just you  repeating your No True Scotsman changing 'real fana' into 'aren't really that interested in football'.

Which I stand by - I struggle to see how you could be really interested in football yet have failed to recognise that Belgium are one of the best teams around at the moment (even if you hadn't clocked that they were top which would therefore come as no great surprise). And for football fans based in England so many of the Belgium players are (or have been) based in England so they, and their quality, is hardly unknown.

[Nearly Sane]

Which I stand by - I struggle to see how you could be really interested in football yet have failed to recognise that Belgium are one of the best teams around at the moment (even if you hadn't clocked that they were top which would therefore come as no great surprise). And for football fans based in England so many of the Belgium players are (or have been) based in England so they, and their quality, is hardly unknown.

But jeremy hasn't said they weren't aware Belgium are one of the best teams. Just not aware that they were no 1 and that they aren't that bothered by the rankings.

[ProfessorDavey]

But jeremy hasn't said they weren't aware Belgium are one of the best teams. Just not aware that they were no 1 and that they aren't that bothered by the rankings.

Nope he went further than not being aware they were top, he said he was surprised that they were top.

I get that someone who purports to be interested in football might not be aware that they are ranked top (particularly if they aren't really interested in rankings), however I'm struggling to see how someone who purports to be interested in football would be surprised that they were top. That's my point.

Where on earth would you have to have been over the past few years to be surprised that Belgium are top.

[ProfessorDavey]

NS - to move on from true Scotsmen and Jeremy's knowledge or lack thereof of football I wonder whether you have a response to my comments in reply

Specifically - I wonder if Belgium will suffer from the Euros being kicked back from 2020 to 2021. I think they'd have been in absolute poll position to win had the tournament been held this summer, given their record over the past couple of years. However I wonder whether a further year might mean they had gone beyond their peak.

If you look are their team they are hugely experienced - I think 6 of their top ten capped player of all time are in the current squad, albeit not all were available last night. As good as that is for experience it does mean they have a load of players at the heart of their team are over 30. These may be players where one more year brings a decline in their abilities, rather than for a young team where an extra year may improve them.

[Nearly Sane]

Looking at the squad and missing players,  Vertonghen, Vermaelen and Mertens are the players who would definitely be at the far end of playing age. That could be significant. Their defence looks most affected by age.