Evidence of God

[bluehillside Retd.]

Pidge,

Explain Please.

Aliens functioning according to natural laws would require far fewer assumptions than a god acting according to “supernatural” ones (whatever that would mean}. QED

Not helpful i’m Afraid, but I suppose you aren’t here to help, just expose fallacies mim, mim, mim, mim, mim,mim etc.

You’re accusing someone else of being “not here to help”? Wow.

Anyway, as you really should have grasped by now “exposing” the fallacies attempted to justify the belief “god” is all that’s necessary for atheism for exactly the same reason that exposing the fallacies attempted to justify the belief "leprechauns" is all that’s necessary for a-leprechaunism.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No. The concept called "supernatural" is incoherent, not necessarily the entities you choose to label with the word.

Everything is supernatural until we find evidence for it, then it becomes natural.

Not a big fan of the term myself. Regarding your second thesis.....Bold.

I’m liking the cut of your gib.......while of course, not necessarily agreeing with it

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Pidge,

Aliens functioning according to natural laws would require far fewer assumptions than a god acting according to “supernatural” ones

As would Leprechauns which also function according to natural laws.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Pidge,

As would Leprechauns which also function according to natural laws.

Yes, but not leprechauns that can flit in and out of the material realm at will. How does that help you?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Pidge,

Yes, but not leprechauns that can flit in and out of the material realm at will. How does that help you?

Yes if they have naturalistic properties then non naturalistic properties are irrelevant.
I’m afraid the appellation “ small Irishmen” has fucked any equivalence with God every time you have tried it.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Pidge,

Yes if they have naturalistic properties then non naturalistic properties are irrelevant.

Same as your god then who apparently appeared multiple times as a material entity. Fair enough.

I’m afraid the appellation “ small Irishmen” has fucked any equivalence with God every time you have tried it.

A mistake you’ve made many times despite being corrected on it every time. My “immaterial/material at will” leprechauns appear to people as little green men when in their latter incarnation. Your “immaterial/material at will” god appeared as whatever “He” looked like to people when he showed up as a material being too (at least he did according to some ancient texts you think to be “holy”). Of course, if you want to claim the Bible to be wrong about that that's up to you.

See? No difference. Game over.   

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Pidge,

Same as your god then who apparently appeared multiple times as a material entity. Fair enough.

A mistake you’ve made many times despite being corrected on it every time. My “immaterial/material at will” leprechauns appear to people as little green men when in their latter incarnation. Your “immaterial/material at will” god appeared as whatever “He” looked like to people when he showed up as a material being too (at least he did according to some ancient texts you think to be “holy”). Of course, if you want to claim the Bible to be wrong about that that's up to you.

See? No difference. Game over.

Look a small Irishman is naturalistic and therefore in the same category as aliens. The old leprechaun schtick is therefore a busted flush.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Pidge,

Look a small Irishman is naturalistic and therefore in the same category as aliens. The old leprechaun schtick is therefore a busted flush.

Look, leprechauns choose to appear when in material form as small Irishmen. Your god chooses to appear when in material form as human-like. After all, the Bible tells us (and in several books mind you) that “God” appeared in person no fewer than eight times (to Hagar, to Abraham & Sarah, again to Abraham, to Jacob, to Moses, to Gideon, to Samson, and even in a “fiery furnace”).

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_1297.cfm

See, here’s your problem: if you want to claim a god that’s immaterial but can (and has) appear(ed) when he feels like it in recognisable material form to witnesses then you have no basis to deny the same phenomenon to any other objects of faith beliefs, leprechauns included. Your only ways out of that would be:

1. Special pleading (OK, "god can’t do that but leprechauns can’t"); or

2. To decide that the Bible is wrong.

Has this sunk in yet?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Pidge,

Look, leprechauns choose to appear when in material form as small Irishmen. Your god chooses to appear when in material form as human-like. After all, the Bible tells us (and in several books mind you) that “God” appeared in person no fewer than eight times (to Hagar, to Abraham & Sarah, again to Abraham, to Jacob, to Moses, to Gideon, to Samson, and even in a “fiery furnace”).

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_1297.cfm

See, here’s your problem: if you want to claim a god that’s immaterial but can (and has) appear(ed) when he feels like it in recognisable material form to witnesses then you have no basis to deny the same phenomenon to any other objects of faith beliefs, leprechauns included. Your only ways out of that would be:

1. Special pleading (OK, "god can’t do that but leprechauns can’t"); or

2. To decide that the Bible is wrong.

Has this sunk in yet?

Sounds like you are imputing divine properties to Leprechauns retrospectively and to suit your argument Hillside. That has to be fallacious.
Where are your citations that Leprechauns are one thing incarnating as another?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Pidge,

Sounds like you are imputing divine properties to Leprechauns retrospectively and to suit your argument Hillside.

Not in the slightest. Leprechauns are “supernatural” but can exist immaterially or materially as they please, only when they are material they appear as small Irishmen. I know this to be true because that’s my faith. If you think there’s a “divine” and it can do the same trick, that’s up to you but I claim no such thing for my beliefs.

That has to be fallacious.

And not true.

Where are your citations that Leprechauns are one thing incarnating as another?

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprechaun

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Pidge,

Not in the slightest. Leprechauns are “supernatural” but can exist immaterially or materially as they please, only when they are material they appear as small Irishmen. I know this to be true because that’s my faith. If you think there’s a “divine” and it can do the same trick, that’s up to you but I claim no such thing for my beliefs.

And not true.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprechaun

read it. Nothing about existing immaterially just wee Irishmen with special powers. Invisibility not mentioned.

Lot of natural activity though.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Pidge,

read it. Nothing about existing immaterially just wee Irishmen with special powers. Invisibility not mentioned.

Lot of natural activity though.

Read it again: "A leprechaun (Irish: leipreachán/luchorpán) is a diminutive supernatural being in Irish folklore...They are usually depicted as little bearded men, wearing a coat and hat..."

Got it now?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Pidge,

Read it again: "A leprechaun (Irish: leipreachán/luchorpán) is a diminutive supernatural being in Irish folklore...They are usually depicted as little bearded men, wearing a coat and hat..."

Got it now?

You read it again. A leprechaun is a DIMINUTIVE supernatural being. LITLE BEARDED MEN, WEARING a coat and a hat.

Got it now?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Pidge,

You read it again. A leprechaun is a DIMINUTIVE supernatural being. LITLE BEARDED MEN, WEARING a coat and a hat.

Got it now?

Dear god but you struggle. Again: "A leprechaun (Irish: leipreachán/luchorpán) is a diminutive supernatural being in Irish folklore...They are usually depicted as little bearded men, wearing a coat and hat..."

Which part of the word "supernatural" is confusing you so?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Pidge,

Dear god but you struggle. Again: "A leprechaun (Irish: leipreachán/luchorpán) is a diminutive supernatural being in Irish folklore...They are usually depicted as little bearded men, wearing a coat and hat..."

Which part of the word "supernatural" is confusing you so?

Which part of the words diminutive, little, bearded, men and wearing is confusing you so?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Pidge,

Which part of the words diminutive, little, bearded, men and wearing is confusing you so?

None of it. That's how they choose to appear when they want to be in material form.

You think there to be a supernatural god that when he wants to be material chooses to appear in "human-like" form (at least if the Bible is to be believed).

That's the same phenomenon - supernatural entities able to flit in and out of their (different) material forms as they wish.

You've crashed and burned yet again. Deal with it.   



   

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Pidge,

None of it. That's how they choose to appear when they want to be in material form.

You think there to be a supernatural god that when he wants to be material chooses to appear in "human-like" form (at least if the Bible is to be believed).

That's the same phenomenon - supernatural entities able to flit in and out of their (different) material forms as they wish.

You've crashed and burned yet again. Deal with it.   



 

Supernatural phenomenon covers a range Hillside. You are just confusing the general term witha specific or you are choosing specific properties to construct something. Both fallacies.

You have crashed and burned.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Pidge,

Supernatural phenomenon covers a range Hillside.

Yes, lots of people believe there to be lots of different supernatural beings.

You are just confusing the general term witha specific or you are choosing specific properties to construct something. Both fallacies.

Did that mean something in your head when you typed it? Again:

1. You believe there to be a supernatural entity called “God” that’s able to flit in and out at will of its material and immaterial states. When in the latter, it’s in “human-like” form.

2. I believe there to be supernatural entities called “leprechauns” that are able to flit in and out at will of their material and immaterial states. When in the latter, they’re in “small Irishmen-like” form.

See? If you want to believe a preposterous thing about the object of your faith belief, you have no basis to deny others the same preposterous thing about the objects of their different faith beliefs. QED 

You have crashed and burned.

You’re desperate now.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Pidge,

Yes, lots of people believe there to be lots of different supernatural beings.

Did that mean something in your head when you typed it? Again:

1. You believe there to be a supernatural entity called “God” that’s able to flit in and out at will of its material and immaterial states. When in the latter, it’s in “human-like” form.

2. I believe there to be supernatural entities called “leprechauns” that are able to flit in and out at will of their material and immaterial states. When in the latter, they’re in “small Irishmen-like” form.

See? If you want to believe a preposterous thing about the object of your faith belief, you have no basis to deny others the same preposterous thing about the objects of their different faith beliefs. QED 

You’re desperate now.

No Hillside you've been creating your own type of Leprechaun to suit your own argument or rather to turdpolish an old one.

Fail.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Pidge,

No Hillside you've been creating your own type of Leprechaun to suit your own argument or rather to turdpolish an old one.

Even is that had been true, so what? It's my faith belief after all. Fortunately for me it's not true though - as Wiki plainly tells you, leprechauns are both supernatural and able to appear as small Irishmen, a trick they can do presumably at will. Similarly, the Bible claims a God both supernatural and able to appear at will in human-like form. Different faith objects, same trick.     

Fail.

The fail is still all yours. You can keep twisting in the wind all you like, but unless you intend a) to deny the Bible; or b) to attempt special pleading for your god, you've lost the argument.

Again. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Pidge,

Even is that had been true, so what? It's my faith belief after all. Fortunately for me it's not true though - a Wiki tells you, they're both supernatural and able to appear as small Irishmen, a trick they can do presumably at will. Similarly, the Bible claims a God both supernatural and able to appear at will in human-like form. Different faith objects, same trick.     

Is all yours. You can keep twisting in the wind all you like, but unless you intend a) to deny the Bible; or b) to attempt special pleading for your god, you've lost the argument.

Again.

Hillside all you are doing is conflating all supernatural things. It doesn’t work. The universe popping out of nothing is supernatural. The universe existing for ever is supernatural. As you say, no gods involved, Leprechauns? Diminutive............Eminently measurable.

[BeRational]

Hillside all you are doing is conflating all supernatural things. It doesn’t work. The universe popping out of nothing is supernatural. The universe existing for ever is supernatural. As you say, no gods involved, Leprechauns? Diminutive............Eminently measurable.

Why is the universe existing forever supernatural?

[Owlswing]

If the 'EVIDENCE' in the title of this thread bears any resemblance to its equivalent in a Court of Law the simple answer is that THERE AIN'T NONE!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Why is the universe existing forever supernatural?

It is beyond scientific verification. I.e.methodological naturalism.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

If the 'EVIDENCE' in the title of this thread bears any resemblance to its equivalent in a Court of Law the simple answer is that THERE AIN'T NONE!

As far as I know the law works on witness testimony.
Every now and then someone takes God or his existence to court.I never hear the verdict.

On another matter would you say you reached out to your gods...or did they reach out to you.