Peter Sutcliffe dead

[Nearly Sane]

I recently reread Joan Smith's Misogynies and the problems with the police investigations into Sutcliffe's murders with their desperation to see it as simply a matter of someone murdering prostitutes which ended up costing more women their lifes, both shines a light on past attitudes but makes me wonder if much has changed. The idea for example in some of the Rotherham cases that the victims were somehow consenting.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-54874713

[Nearly Sane]

Tweet from Hallie Rubenhold, author of The Five,




"Let's remember Wilma McCann, Emily Jackson, Irene Richardson, Patricia Atkinson, Jayne MacDonald, Jean Jordan, Yvonne Pearson, Helen Rytka, Vera Millward, Josephine Whitaker, Barbara Leach, Marguerite Walls, Jacqueline Hill. We don't need to mention Peter Sutcliffe again.'

[Nearly Sane]

And article from Joan Smith


https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/13/peter-sutcliffe-crimes-women-police-investigation-murders-misogny?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true

[Nearly Sane]

Powerful piece by Jools Denby



https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/18870891.amp/?ref=twtrec&__twitter_impression=true

[Roses]

I doubt too many tears will be shed for that piece of the proverbial!

[Nearly Sane]

And another article by the redoubtable Joan Smith


 https://unherd.com/2020/11/forty-years-after-the-ripper-women-arent-safe/

[Roses]

I think Sutcliffe's body should be cremated and flushed down the sewer!

[Nearly Sane]

I think Sutcliffe's body should be cremated and flushed down the sewer!

Do you have anything to say in relation to the points made in the articles about the failings in the investigations, and that there are still huge issues?

[SteveH]

I think Sutcliffe's body should be cremated and flushed down the sewer!

A death is a death. Even Sutcliffe's remains should be treated with basic respect.

[Owlswing]

A death is a death. Even Sutcliffe's remains should be treated with basic respect.

Sorry to disagree, but what respect, even basic respect, did that evil bastard show to his victims?

Less than NONE!

He got better than he deserved - forty years of life - he probably robbed his victims of more than that EACH!

Why in the name of whatever you hold holy should he be shown any respect?


Owlswing

)O(

[Roses]

Sorry to disagree, but what respect, even basic respect, did that evil bastard show to his victims?

Less than NONE!

He got better than he deserved - forty years of life - he probably robbed his victims of more than that EACH!

Why in the name of whatever you hold holy should he be shown any respect?


Owlswing

)O(

I agree, Sutcliffe deserves no respect whatsoever.

[SteveH]

How predictable.

[Owlswing]

How predictable.

How so? Please.

[SteveH]

How so? Please.

Self-righteous savagery, and failure to notice that I said his remains should be treated with basic respect.

[Nearly Sane]

The question of what to do with Sutcliffe's remains is surely an extremely narrow cul-de-sac, and whatever is done does nothing for the women he murdered, nor deals with any of the issues raised in the articles about the investigation then which due to its faults based on the assumptions about women led to Sutcliffe have more time to murder more women. It also ignores the points raised that there are still issues about how we approach such cases.

[jeremyp]

A death is a death. Even Sutcliffe's remains should be treated with basic respect.

There's nobody left alive, as far as I know, who cares in the slightest what happens to his remains.

[SteveH]

There's nobody left alive, as far as I know, who cares in the slightest what happens to his remains.

Two people on here apparently care - they want them to suffer any possible indignity. I'm sure the sort of person who waits outside courts and prisons to scream abuse at prison vans, of whom there are many, would agree.

[jeremyp]

The question of what to do with Sutcliffe's remains is surely an extremely narrow cul-de-sac, and whatever is done does nothing for the women he murdered, nor deals with any of the issues raised in the articles about the investigation then which due to its faults based on the assumptions about women led to Sutcliffe have more time to murder more women. It also ignores the points raised that there are still issues about how we approach such cases.

I'm not convinced that the fact that he targeted prostitutes has anything to do with him not being caught sooner. Mistakes were made but I think they had more to do with the processes used by the police at the time together with some old fashioned incompetence.

[SteveH]

The question of what to do with Sutcliffe's remains is surely an extremely narrow cul-de-sac, and whatever is done does nothing for the women he murdered, nor deals with any of the issues raised in the articles about the investigation then which due to its faults based on the assumptions about women led to Sutcliffe have more time to murder more women. It also ignores the points raised that there are still issues about how we approach such cases.

It's not ignoring those points - it's a different subject.

[jeremyp]

Two people on here apparently care - they want them to suffer any possible indignity. I'm sure the sort of person who waits outside courts and prisons to scream abuse at prison vans, of whom there are many, would agree.

I stand corrected. Although I don't think Owlswing or Little Roses really care what happens to Sutcliffe's body, it looks like you do.

Or maybe it's all just posturing on a message board and none of you will give it a second thought when his ashes get buried in an anonymous plot in a secret location or whatever it is that will happen.

Nearly Sane is right: there are far more important issues arising from this than what happens to a particular dead body.

[Roses]

Two people on here apparently care - they want them to suffer any possible indignity. I'm sure the sort of person who waits outside courts and prisons to scream abuse at prison vans, of whom there are many, would agree.

You do like make comments in order to try to wind people up! Since when did human remains suffer? Do you think Hitler's remains should have been treated with dignity?

[Nearly Sane]

It's not ignoring those points - it's a different subject.

And an extremely unimportant one in terms of what is raised. Would you care to comment on the issues raised in the articles?

[SteveH]

You do like make comments in order to try to wind people up! Since when did human remains suffer? Do you think Hitler's remains should have been treated with dignity?

Had he been taken alive and executed, yes. He would have been cremated, and the ashes disposed of, in the same way as the other executed war criminals. All I'm asking for is for them not to be treated with deliberate contempt, as you suggested ("flushed down the sewer").

[SteveH]

And an extremely unimportant one in terms of what is raised. Would you care to comment on the issues raised in the articles?

I agree that it's relatively unimportant, but I didn't start it. That was LR, with her comment about flushing his ashes down the sewer. He's dead, and no-one will miss him, but some self-righteous types can't just leave it at that.
Having read the links, it does seem that the police were guilty of both gross incompetence and misogyny, the latter reinforcing the former to some extent. Of course, some blame must attach to the hoaxer, who I believe was eventually caught, and served a longish term in prison.

[Nearly Sane]

I agree that it's relatively unimportant, but I didn't start it. That was LR, with her comment about flushing his ashes down the sewer. He's dead, and no-one will miss him, but some self-righteous types can't just leave it at that.
Having read the links, it does seem that the police were guilty of both gross incompetence and misogyny, the latter reinforcing the former to some extent. Of course, some blame must attach to the hoaxer, who I believe was eventually caught, and served a longish term in prison.

The thing thing is this is not just about this case and the past but an issue since then and still now. You only have to look at some of the comments in the Spycops case to see that. Also the attitudes of some police in any of the well known grooming gangs cases.