Author Topic: Captain Tom Moore dead  (Read 3094 times)

Gordon

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2021, 03:50:08 PM »
Clapping is cheap. Circus comes to town at 6pm


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-55917475

I'll pass: it is all becoming a bit silly-season now.

jeremyp

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2021, 04:01:50 PM »
Clapping is cheap. Circus comes to town at 6pm


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-55917475

I always find these gestures after people die to be somewhat meaningless. He's dead, there's no point in clapping him now, because he can't hear us. Fortunately, he was showered with awards and honours during the last year, so he didn't die not knowing how much his efforts were appreciated.

As for the honours system, I think it is important that the country has a way to say thank you to people that have done it some exemplary service. A knighthood for Captain Sir Tom might be a bit over the top, but many less deserving people have received them.

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Nearly Sane

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2021, 06:31:11 PM »
There was no clapping where I am

Gordon

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2021, 06:54:31 PM »
Same here.

SteveH

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2021, 10:46:15 PM »
There's now a petition going to get him a state funeral! Never heard owt so daft in all me life.
I once tried using "chicken" as a password, but was told it must contain a capital so I tried "chickenkiev"
On another occasion, I tried "beefstew", but was told it wasn't stroganoff.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2021, 10:48:45 PM »
There's now a petition going to get him a state funeral! Never heard owt so daft in all me life.
Again state funerals are just flummery to me.

Owlswing

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2021, 02:26:17 AM »

I always find these gestures after people die to be somewhat meaningless. He's dead, there's no point in clapping him now, because he can't hear us. Fortunately, he was showered with awards and honours during the last year, so he didn't die not knowing how much his efforts were appreciated.

As for the honours system, I think it is important that the country has a way to say thank you to people that have done it some exemplary service. A knighthood for Captain Sir Tom might be a bit over the top, but many less deserving people have received them.


Obviously, you are one of those who do not believe in an afterlife. Most those who do the clapping do so believe.

Owlswing

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Aruntraveller

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2021, 06:32:38 AM »
Obviously, you are one of those who do not believe in an afterlife. Most those who do the clapping do so believe.

Owlswing

)O(

Not in my opinion.

In my opinion a lot of people do it with the best of intentions as in clapping for the medical staff. Of course that creates a certain feel good factor that completely ignores the fact that they are over stretched and still not rewarded adequately for what they do and it helps let the govt continue to get away with it.

The pertinent question in everyone's mind should be "Why did a 100 year old man have to walk round and around his garden in the first place?"

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Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Gordon

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2021, 06:53:49 AM »
According to the Daily Wail there is a 'national clamour' for a statue - anyone seen any clamouring going on outwith the pages of the likes of the 'Wail'?


Nearly Sane

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2021, 07:22:33 AM »
Obviously, you are one of those who do not believe in an afterlife. Most those who do the clapping do so believe.

Owlswing

)O(
Yep, Johnson was out clapping because he thought it would get Captain Tom's wings quicker.


https://youtu.be/QjgE4kNSU74
« Last Edit: February 04, 2021, 08:09:16 AM by Nearly Sane »

SteveH

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2021, 07:53:18 AM »
Again state funerals are just flummery to me.
That is not the point, which is that a state funeral, flummery or not, is completely over the top for a bloke who lived a perfectly unexceptional, though no doubt admirable in its way, life until the last year of his life, when he did a sponsored walk. Given his age and dodderiness, that was remarkable, but hardly merited either a knighthood or a state funeral.
I once tried using "chicken" as a password, but was told it must contain a capital so I tried "chickenkiev"
On another occasion, I tried "beefstew", but was told it wasn't stroganoff.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2021, 07:58:53 AM »
That is not the point, which is that a state funeral, flummery or not, is completely over the top for a bloke who lived a perfectly unexceptional, though no doubt admirable in its way, life until the last year of his life, when he did a sponsored walk. Given his age and dodderiness, that was remarkable, but hardly merited either a knighthood or a state funeral.
Something has to be meaningful for it to be OTT. The idea of a state funeral is just nonsense to me.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2021, 08:08:28 AM by Nearly Sane »

Udayana

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2021, 10:13:23 AM »
There was no clapping where I am

That's what I was saying, just as the local TV news showed people clapping from a road round the corner :)
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Owlswing

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2021, 11:32:01 AM »

Not in my opinion.

In my opinion, a lot of people do it with the best of intentions as in clapping for the medical staff. Of course, that creates a certain feel-good factor that completely ignores the fact that they are overstretched and still not rewarded adequately for what they do and it helps let the govt continue to get away with it.

The pertinent question in everyone's mind should be "Why did a 100-year-old man have to walk around and round his garden in the first place?"

"Charity is a cold grey loveless thing. If a rich man wants to help the poor, he should pay his taxes gladly, not dole out money at a whim." Clement Atlee


I am well aware of the state of the medical staff at the moment - as previously posted, my ex and sister-in-law are both in that admirable profession.

And I am sorry that my attempt at Nye's sarcasm was so far off-target!

Owlswing

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« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 12:58:41 PM by Owlswing »
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SteveH

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2021, 12:34:51 PM »
Someone makes a rare sane comment about the ridiculous, disproportionate lionisation of Captain Moore, and gets a load of racist abuse as a result. Modern Britain. https://uk.yahoo.com/news/church-aided-pile-curate-captain-072322699.html
I once tried using "chicken" as a password, but was told it must contain a capital so I tried "chickenkiev"
On another occasion, I tried "beefstew", but was told it wasn't stroganoff.

Owlswing

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2021, 01:01:13 PM »

Someone makes rare sane comment about the ridiculous, disproportionate lionisation of Captain Moore, and gets a load of racist abuse as a result. Modern Britain. https://uk.yahoo.com/news/church-aided-pile-curate-captain-072322699.html


When you are in a minority you must expect the derision of the majority.

Owlswing

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The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Aruntraveller

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2021, 01:32:22 PM »
When you are in a minority you must expect the derision of the majority.

Owlswing

)O(

Really?

That's how it is supposed to work for gay people, black people, transgendered people, ginger haired people, Monks, Pagans, etc.

You must expect it? FFS.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

SteveH

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2021, 01:35:13 PM »
Really?

That's how it is supposed to work for gay people, black people, transgendered people, ginger haired people, Monks, Pagans, etc.

You must expect it? FFS.
Expect, not accept.
I once tried using "chicken" as a password, but was told it must contain a capital so I tried "chickenkiev"
On another occasion, I tried "beefstew", but was told it wasn't stroganoff.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2021, 01:40:49 PM »
Someone makes a rare sane comment about the ridiculous, disproportionate lionisation of Captain Moore, and gets a load of racist abuse as a result. Modern Britain. https://uk.yahoo.com/news/church-aided-pile-curate-captain-072322699.html
I think it was badly phrased as there is an implication that a lot of people who feel Tom Moore deserved more adulation than you and Foreshew-Cain do, is somehow part of a 'cult of white British nationalism'.


Aruntraveller

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2021, 01:43:05 PM »
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2021, 01:49:23 PM »
?

He said expect.
I think that is Steve's point. To say that it would be expected doesn't mean one has to accept it.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2021, 01:58:30 PM »
I think that is Steve's point. To say that it would be expected doesn't mean one has to accept it.

I don't expect it or accept it.  :-\
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Owlswing

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2021, 02:55:35 PM »

I
 don't expect it or accept it.  :-\

Your prerogative!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2021, 02:56:11 PM »
The Captain Tom story raises an interesting point about consequences. He did a lovely thing, but had it not been picked up by the local press and then by the national media, and had lots of people not been taken by the story he’d have most likely raised only his original target of £1,000 rather than the £39m that was actually raised. Does that mean he should be credited with “raising” £39m, or not?   

A few years ago on a bike ride on a country lane approaching at T-junction I noticed that a stop sign had been turned round. It was easy enough to turn it back the right way. Now let’s say that, hypothetically, half an hour later a family had driven by who thus saw the sign, so did stop at the junction, and so weren’t wiped out by the lorry that happened to be crossing the road ahead.

Would that have made meant I’d saved the lives of the family, and thus had been a hero for the simple act of turning the sign back? My instinct is no of course – I just turned a sign round. Let’s say instead though that I hadn’t been there that day, that the idiot who turned it the wrong way round had been caught on CCTV, and that the family had been killed as a consequence of his action. Would he deserve to be blamed for their deaths? Probably yes I’d say, though presumably the crime would be something like reckless endangerment rather than manslaughter (or worse).

Another example from Nicholas Taleb: the passengers who tackled the hijackers on American Airlines Flight 77 on 9/11 (the one that crashed into the Pentagon) were acclaimed as heroes, and I don’t disagree. Imagine though that an obscure official in the Dept. of Transportation six month before had introduced a new regulation that upgraded airport scanners such that the bad guys couldn’t have boarded at all. Would he be a hero for that action that, in practice, would have saved more lives than the brave passengers could?

Anyway, just some idle thoughts. Clearly had Captain Tom not acted as he did the £39m would not have been raised – but a lot of other events had to fall into place too, most of which he couldn’t have imagined.   
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SteveH

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Re: Captain Tom Moore dead
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2021, 03:58:16 PM »
The plane on which the passengers tried to overcome the hijackers crashed into a field. It was probably intended for the Capitol or the White House. That detail apart, I agree with your points.
I once tried using "chicken" as a password, but was told it must contain a capital so I tried "chickenkiev"
On another occasion, I tried "beefstew", but was told it wasn't stroganoff.