Explosive rise in Modern Slavery

[Walt Zingmatilder]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/04/lockdown-brings-alarming-rise-in-modern-slavery

[Owlswing]

qhttps://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/04/lockdown-brings-alarming-rise-in-modern-slavery

I note the mention of the nationalities of some of those subjected to slavery and Sexual exploitation but no mention of the nationalities of those committing these crimes.

Owlswing

)O(

[Roses]

It is terrible that modern slavery has risen so dramatically. If this sort of slavery was depicted in the Bible and apparently supported by the god character, there are some who would make excuses for it, as they do of the slavery mentioned in that book. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It is terrible that modern slavery has risen so dramatically. If this sort of slavery was depicted in the Bible and apparently supported by the god character, there are some who would make excuses for it, as they do of the slavery mentioned in that book. 

Yes but it is happening in an increasingly secular society centuries after Christians (for the main part) campaigned for it to be abolished.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Yes but it is happening in an increasingly secular society centuries after Christians (for the main part) campaigned for it to be abolished.

You forgot to mention that it's all Richard Dawkins' fault. 

[Aruntraveller]

Yes, yes - secular this. secular that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Nigeria

So look at this map and tell me which sort of countries have the higher prevalence of slavery:

https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/data/maps/#prevalence

I'll wait.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad,

You forgot to mention that it's all Richard Dawkins' fault.

that's because it's not all his fault.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

that's because it's not all his fault.

Not a truth that's ever stopped you before.   

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Yes, yes - secular this. secular that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Nigeria

So look at this map and tell me which sort of countries have the higher prevalence of slavery:

https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/data/maps/#prevalence

I'll wait.

We are talking about the rise of modern slavery all round particularly in increasingly secular nations.

If we are going to take levels of slavery as an indicator of how bad something is, then we cannot suddenly turned round and say ah, but this doesn't apply to us, we can have increased levels of slavery and it is not a reflection on us.

 

[Aruntraveller]

We are talking about the rise of modern slavery all round particularly in increasingly secular nations.

If we are going to take levels of slavery as an indicator of how bad something is, then we cannot suddenly turned round and say ah, but this doesn't apply to us, we can have increased levels of slavery and it is not a reflection on us.

Good we are getting somewhere at least. Which countries have the highest levels of slavery. I ask this because you can't conversely say that religious countries offer a way out of this - clearly they don't.

So why don't you stop with your ridiculous binary view of issues and admit that a whole host of factors are at play on this issue. As with many others.

For bizarre reasons known only to you you seek to blame secularism for these problems when the truth is significantly more complicated and generally not related to secularism.

Now unfettered capitalism, that's another kettle of sprats altogether..........

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

We are talking about the rise of modern slavery all round particularly in increasingly secular nations.

If we are going to take levels of slavery as an indicator of how bad something is, then we cannot suddenly turned round and say ah, but this doesn't apply to us, we can have increased levels of slavery and it is not a reflection on us.

Slavery in secular societies is generally a criminal act; slavey in theocracies often isn't. That's why its incidence in secular countries is still a fraction of that in theocracies. Have a look at the modern slavery map Trent linked to.       

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Good we are getting somewhere at least. Which countries have the highest levels of slavery. I ask this because you can't conversely say that religious countries offer a way out of this - clearly they don't.

So why don't you stop with your ridiculous binary view of issues and admit that a whole host of factors are at play on this issue. As with many others.

For bizarre reasons known only to you you seek to blame secularism for these problems when the truth is significantly more complicated and generally not related to secularism.

Now unfettered capitalism, that's another kettle of sprats altogether..........

And yet these things are happening in an increasingly secular society. Is part of the point of an increasingly secular society, moral improvement? If so, then why are we moving from saying beastly things about people to actually treating them in a beastly fashion? Yes certain groups have a better time of it, but swathes have seen their lot get worse.

We need to get to the why this happens. Did western secularism merely talk the talk as a moral movement or what?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad,

Slavery in secular societies is generally a criminal act; slavey in theocracies often isn't. That's why its incidence in secular countries is still a fraction of that in theocracies. Have a look at the modern slavery map Trent linked to.       

However in the Arcuri/johnson thread we have been talking about the increasing impossibility in an increasingly secular country to do anything about any act a tory politician can perform. So even if slavery is a criminal act in such a SOCIETY there is obviously an increased danger of the blind eye.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

And yet these things are happening in an increasingly secular society.

An increase in slavery from 1:100 to 2:100 is a 100% increase. An increase in slavery from 80:100 to 88:100 is an increase of just 10%. Where would you rather live?   

You're confusing variance with incidence.   
 

Is part of the point of an increasingly secular society, moral improvement?

Not really, though that’s often a desirable outcome.

If so, then why are we moving from saying beastly things about people to actually treating them in a beastly fashion? Yes certain groups have a better time of it, but swathes have seen their lot get worse.

“We” aren’t; criminal gangs are. 

We need to get to the why this happens.

Agreed.

Did western secularism merely talk the talk as a moral movement or what?

It’s got nothing to do with “western secularism”.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

However in the Arcuri/johnson thread we have been talking about the increasing impossibility in an increasingly secular country to do anything about any act a tory politician can perform. So even if slavery is a criminal act in such a SOCIETY there is obviously an increased danger of the blind eye.

Which has still got fuck all to do with secularism. You're back in "I lost my car keys; therefore it's Richard Dawkins' fault" territory again.   

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad,
 You're back in "I lost my car keys; therefore it's Richard Dawkins' fault" territory again.

I'm afraid I had to laugh at that because of it's pottiness.

Secularism isn't the same as atheism Hillside. It lacks the ''merely'' side of atheism and has ramifications all round. For example if you claim the good things for it then you are obliged to claim the bad things also.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

I'm afraid I had to laugh at that because of it's pottiness.

Given your history of blaming RD for everything from the bubonic plague to the disappearance of Shergar I wonder why?

Secularism isn't the same as atheism Hillside.

You don't say.

It lacks the ''merely'' side of atheism and has ramifications all round. For example if you claim the good things for it then you are obliged to claim the bad things also.

No-one says secular societies are perfect - they're just the least imperfect societies we've come up with so far. By all means identify the imperfections if you want to (though you should also then mention the positives re literacy, life expectancy, gender equality etc) but if you want to use imperfections to criticise secularism in general then you should also reference the incidences of the same phenomena in religious societies for comparison.     

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad,

Given your history of blaming RD for everything from the bubonic plague to the disappearance of Shergar I wonder why?

You don't say.

No-one says secular societies are perfect - they're just the least imperfect societies we've come up with so far. By all means identify the imperfections if you want to (though you should also then mention the positives re literacy, life expectancy, gender equality etc) but if you want to use imperfections to criticise secularism in general then you should also reference the incidences of the same phenomena in religious societies for comparison.   

Arseclenching whataboutery and not just from you, Hillside.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Arseclenching whataboutery and not just from you, Hillside.

The abject collapse of your "argument" is noted.

So, now we know is that all you were trying to say was that secular societies are imperfect what better alternative would you propose?     

[Aruntraveller]

Arseclenching whataboutery and not just from you, Hillside.

Just once put forward a clear, coherent argument. That's all. Just the fucking once.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Trent,

Just once put forward a clear, coherent argument. That's all. Just the fucking once.

Someone once described the sight of a man trying the doors of a Yates's wine lodge at four in the afternoon as the definition of optimism.

I think you may have just come up with a better one. 

[SteveH]

It is terrible that modern slavery has risen so dramatically. If this sort of slavery was depicted in the Bible and apparently supported by the god character, there are some who would make excuses for it, as they do of the slavery mentioned in that book. 

You are obsessed. As De Pfeffelred points out, Christians were in the forefront of the anti-slavery movement, and it was abolished first in Christian countries.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Will,

You are obsessed. As De Pfeffelred points out, Christians were in the forefront of the anti-slavery movement, and it was abolished first in Christian countries.

And Christians were pro-slavery for the two millennia or so before that.

As for abolition, actually Christians and non-Christians both were at the forefront of that. 

[Robbie]

Oh who cares FFS. It's People, fellow humans, who exploit other people including children.

Thanks for posting the article DePff. I did know something about it, it's horrific.

https://www.antislavery.org/what-we-do/uk/

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Will,

And Christians were pro-slavery for the two millennia or so before that.

As for abolition, actually Christians and non-Christians both were at the forefront of that.

It seems everybody was pro slavery particularly of the nasty unrelenting type vis-Ancient Greece and Rome.
Christianity was involved in the moderation of those much to the disappointment of AC Grayling who seems to blame Christianity for spoiling the Glory that was Rome.

As for for the non Christians at the forefront, feel free to make your case.