Hartlepool

[Walt Zingmatilder]

In a big ''fuck'' you to fishermen, nurses, the coronavirus bereaved, common sense and decency. The good people of Hartlepool have voted for a group of monkeys as a penance for hanging one some time ago.

We will now recieve our lecture on how we have to accept Brexit and understand this reaction as, for them a sensible reaction.

According to the Guardian voters blame labour for loss of jobs and Tory cuts in services.

 

[Harrowby Hall]

The Conservative majority appears to have been enabled by voters who had supported UKIP earlier. People who had supported Labour before but who had believed the irrational garbage of Farage are perceiving Johnson as a supporter of that cause.

Without a change in the electoral system, an independent Scotland will ensure that England is a one-party state.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Apparently nobody was listening to the people of Hartlepool for decades.....mainly Tory decades.
What were they saying? No one seems to know.
I've never bought Ken Livingstone's view that people vote tory because labour aren't labour enough.

And why did they blame labour for Tory cuts?

[Aruntraveller]

Well you do have to factor in the magnificent way the Tories play and fix the system:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/21/exclusive-labour-councils-in-england-hit-harder-by-austerity-than-tory-areas

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Well you do have to factor in the magnificent way the Tories play and fix the system:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/21/exclusive-labour-councils-in-england-hit-harder-by-austerity-than-tory-areas

Wouldn't that mean that they didn't know about austerity and just put it down to labour councils?

It would seem that this is an ''if you can't beat them join them'' reaction. What I don't think they realise is you can't vote tory and then become affluent because of it.....it's the other way round.

[Aruntraveller]

Wouldn't that mean that they didn't know about austerity and just put it down to labour councils?

It would seem that this is an ''if you can't beat them join them'' reaction. What I don't think they realise is you can't vote tory and then become affluent because of it.....it's the other way round.

No argument from me. It's down to a lack of political engagement, or at least to a very superficial look at events. The Tories have been doing this for years, it is not new but they are getting more and more adept and brazen at it.

The problem down the line is that they will not be able to do this economically. There are the huge costs of the pandemic to figure out. There will be no levelling up done, I suspect there will be levelling down.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No argument from me. It's down to a lack of political engagement, or at least to a very superficial look at events. The Tories have been doing this for years, it is not new but they are getting more and more adept and brazen at it.

The problem down the line is that they will not be able to do this economically. There are the huge costs of the pandemic to figure out. There will be no levelling up done, I suspect there will be levelling down.

Agreed I'm also wondering about Johnson's statement about them having lent Boris there votes. Was his ease at using the word lent betrayal of the tories being minded to ditch them when they had served their purpose?

[Nearly Sane]

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-woodfired-brick-wall/

[Walt Zingmatilder]

In the late eighties it was my privilege to be able to persuade a tory colleague that they were ultimately a bad thing by pointing out that your tory does not only want to see her or himself moving up but they also want to see someone going down at the same time.

Titanic Britain may well be turning turtle as well as breaking in two.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Another horror to come out of the result is the tories will now think they can let Covid rip.
Hartlepool demonstrates that nobody gives a shit about the bodies.

[Nearly Sane]

Another horror to come out of the result is the tories will now think they can let Covid rip.
Hartlepool demonstrates that nobody gives a shit about the bodies.

Drivel.

[Nearly Sane]

John McDonnell making a lot of sense on BBC news. There was no clear view in England of what Labour is currently for. Tye campaign in Scotland has been better, to the extent it was the best in my view of all the parties, and Labour's best here for at least 16 years. That said I doubt it will cut through much because it was a bit late and other factors got in the way.

[Aruntraveller]

Another horror to come out of the result is the tories will now think they can let Covid rip.
Hartlepool demonstrates that nobody gives a shit about the bodies.

Don't quite see how you come to that conclusion.

However badly they have mismanaged most of this pandemic, it has never been in their interest to do any such thing.

When things were going badly for them for much of last year they suffered in the polls. Now with the vaccine roll out they are reaping the benefit (admittedly of the NHS doing such a good job in the main) but the one thing the Tories realised was the importance of a vaccine programme as a government they would be the beneficiaries of a certain "feel good" factor.

I think people do give a shit about the bodies and I think a reckoning will come but it is too early at the moment.

[Aruntraveller]

Newsthumps take on Hartlepool:

https://newsthump.com/2021/05/07/hartlepool-looks-at-past-year-of-conservative-government-and-declares-ooh-yes-please/?

[jeremyp]

Don't quite see how you come to that conclusion.

However badly they have mismanaged most of this pandemic, it has never been in their interest to do any such thing.

When things were going badly for them for much of last year they suffered in the polls. Now with the vaccine roll out they are reaping the benefit (admittedly of the NHS doing such a good job in the main) but the one thing the Tories realised was the importance of a vaccine programme as a government they would be the beneficiaries of a certain "feel good" factor.

I think people do give a shit about the bodies and I think a reckoning will come but it is too early at the moment.

I have to admit I was somewhat mystified at the Hartlepool result, but I think this post nails it.

The vaccine roll out has been a tremendous success and I think the government can take quite a lot of credit for that, in particular, for the way it seems to have managed to procure plenty of supplies of the vaccine. If you add in to the mix the fact that the EU totally botched up their vaccine programme, the voters of Hartlepool can see that, not only has the government saved us from COVID19, but they managed to stick one on Johnny Foreigner at the same time.

I know the above is a gross simplification of the real state of affairs, but the if the last six years have taught us anything, they have taught us that the average voter understands simple and can't be doing with complex.

[Alan Burns]

I strongly suspect that the governments success at rolling out the Covid vaccine (compared to the rest of Europe!) was a big factor.

[Nearly Sane]

And from Peter Mandelson on BBC


Time and time again on the doorsteps, I heard if we have a Tory govt we might as well have a Tory MP as we have a better chance of getting money into the area

[Aruntraveller]

And from Peter Mandelson on BBC


Time and time again on the doorsteps, I heard if we have a Tory govt we might as well have a Tory MP as we have a better chance of getting money into the area

Aye. This is no way to run a country.

[SusanDoris]

I have not been following the news as I just hear the occasional headlines, but I have noticed a lack of Labour people being quoted. I think perhaps they have been very weak in their efforts, but I don't know and, I have to say, don't care very much except that I know weak opposition is not good!

[jeremyp]

And from Peter Mandelson on BBC


Time and time again on the doorsteps, I heard if we have a Tory govt we might as well have a Tory MP as we have a better chance of getting money into the area

Ow!

I don't know which frightens me more: that voters would think like that or that they might be right.

[Aruntraveller]

I don't know which frightens me more: that voters would think like that or that they might be right.

I think you'll find your use of the word "might" in that sentence incorrect.

[Nearly Sane]

Interesting that Andrew Adonis calling for Starmer to go. Attacked from both sides.

[jeremyp]

I think you'll find your use of the word "might" in that sentence incorrect.

What word would you suggest instead? I don't think it's 100% guaranteed that Hartlepool will now be showered with government cash.

[Nearly Sane]

What word would you suggest instead? I don't think it's 100% guaranteed that Hartlepool will now be showered with government cash.

Possibly not, but it would definitely seem to give them a better chance given Tory corruption.

[Harrowby Hall]

Isn't a major part of the problem the fact our main political parties appear to be based in the socio-cultural divisions of the past rather than identifiable modern political philosophies?
And that this is confounded by our first-past-the-post voting system?

The Green Party and the Lib Dems do appear to operate from a political philosophy basis but are hamstrung by fptp which favours the tribalism of the two main parties.

And then there is the situation where the leader of the Labour Party chooses to play down his achievements  (former DPP, Queen's Counsellor, Knight of the Realm and the holder of two degrees -one from Oxford) possibly because they make him look like a successful Tory.