Author Topic: Atheism ends today  (Read 25185 times)

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2021, 09:28:11 AM »
Oh so it's a feeling you've had inside.

You self ID as a religioso.
What part of "being shifted....from a hope that atheism would last for ever to a conviction it won't" aren't you getting Trent?

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2021, 09:34:52 AM »
The inner witness of the holy spirit, Scripture which talks of a  phase shift in existence in which God will be self evident to all, a taster of which I have experienced and finally the spectacle of goddodgery by people on this forum. Which had new atheism existed years ago would be enough to make me think about such overt avoidance behaviour.
What is "goddodgery"?

Maybe I have misunderstood, but it sounds like you think atheists avoid god? Doesn't avoiding something require you to believe it exists in order to form the intent to avoid it? If atheists don't have a belief that gods exists how are you evidencing an intention to avoid?

Having been an atheist, I wasn't avoiding gods - the idea of gods just seemed meaningless and therefore the whole concept was irrelevant other than where other people's religious beliefs constrained or impinged on my day to day life e.g. school requiring me to attend religious assemblies - having to get lots of late marks and admonitions about my time-keeping because being forced to listen to the head pontificate about good and bad in religious terms or Jesus dying for my sins was irritating.

My reaction to being forced to listen to this type of think was to push back and force religious people to listen to my views - so I wrote in large black letters on the back of my lab coat "God did not create Man, Man created God". I am fairly certain I succeeded in irritating the religious back, which only seemed fair. As far as I was concerned we were even - they shoved religion down my throat and I shoved atheism down theirs. It seemed a good balance but then suddenly the school banned everyone from writing on our lab coats and we all had to wash all the writing off or get new ones.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

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Gordon

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2021, 09:42:01 AM »
The inner witness of the holy spirit, Scripture which talks of a  phase shift in existence in which God will be self evident to all, a taster of which I have experienced and finally the spectacle of goddodgery by people on this forum. Which had new atheism existed years ago would be enough to make me think about such overt avoidance behaviour.

You've forgotten to clarify who here you were thinking of when you said that they had expressed the hope that "that everyone becomes atheist".

Your personal conviction that atheism won't last forever seems to rest on your feeling that you experienced some form of divine encounter - is it possible you are mistaken?

Nearly Sane

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2021, 09:54:51 AM »
You've forgotten to clarify who here you were thinking of when you said that they had expressed the hope that "that everyone becomes atheist".

Your personal conviction that atheism won't last forever seems to rest on your feeling that you experienced some form of divine encounter - is it possible you are mistaken?
I think Susan Doris has expressed a hope that everyone becomes atheist. I  would suggest that's it's implied in the posting of bluehillside, and arguably a couple of others.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2021, 10:05:31 AM »
What part of "being shifted....from a hope that atheism would last for ever to a conviction it won't" aren't you getting Trent?

Shifted by what? A feeling? A voice? What?

If it's a feeling, I repeat, you are self Id'ing, which we can choose to accept or reject because it's based on a feeling. What part of that aren't you getting Walt?
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2021, 09:17:59 AM »
Shifted by what? A feeling? A voice? What?

If it's a feeling, I repeat, you are self Id'ing, which we can choose to accept or reject because it's based on a feeling. What part of that aren't you getting Walt?
God is definitionally as far as we and reality are concerned is, in anybodies book an ultimate reality, in the same order as an infinitely old and eternal universe or a universe that ops out of nothing. We will never know for sure which or either of these  two universes is the real thing. God on the other hand is perfectly free to allow people to be aware and react to himself.

And that is precisely what started happening the moment you just read this since your response would have either been mild ire or sweet agreement. Mild ire that I had introduced get outs from the two possible alternatives to God or mild ire against the agnostic position..........or mild ire at having to go to the ''unknown unknowns'' gambit.

My encounter therefore stimulated within me in turns, a questioning of my moral status, reception of a temporary ability to  complete focus on a single thing, God, I was faced with a decision to open or close myself to God in the knowledge that I could, whatever the choice not deny my encounter I am not ashamed of any feelings I had as a consequence although many I couldn't resist having and some I didn't want at all, your notion of a free floating feeling without stimulus being debateable, although I know christians and of christians who have no stand out feelings at the point I was at.

I don't believe my arguments on here are based around feelings but more philosophical. Although I strongly council your examination of your own feelings e.g. do you find you draw comfort from any atheistic philosophy, do you, for instance, stop worrying when Richard Dawkins states there probably isn't a God ( Atheist Bus Campaign)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 09:21:31 AM by Walt Zingmatilder »

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2021, 09:22:15 AM »
I think Susan Doris has expressed a hope that everyone becomes atheist. I  would suggest that's it's implied in the posting of bluehillside, and arguably a couple of others.
What Sane said.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2021, 09:36:15 AM »
Quote
God is definitionally as far as we and reality are concerned is, in anybodies book an ultimate reality,

God isn't an ultimate reality. You are just posting what you want to be real.

I don't have mild ire or sweet agreement, maybe bafflement at your increasingly complex justifications and twisty turny reasoning.

I pay very little heed to Dawkins. I do, after all, have a life to live. As to drawing comfort from them, no I don't. I draw comfort from my friends and loved ones. I don't need comfort from professional atheists or professional religionists for that matter.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2021, 09:52:11 AM »
What is "goddodgery"?

Maybe I have misunderstood, but it sounds like you think atheists avoid god? Doesn't avoiding something require you to believe it exists in order to form the intent to avoid it? If atheists don't have a belief that gods exists how are you evidencing an intention to avoid?
Goddodgery is the conscious or subconscious avoidance of God/the truth of God and the manifest behaviours which ensue. Avoiding something doesn't then require an overt or conscious belief in it. Belief could also be masked by self delusion and the desire for whatever reason to overtly maintain the status quo of atheism. I do know a believer who, at his own admission, publicly continued to profess atheism even though he had encountered God.
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Having been an atheist, I wasn't avoiding gods
I am bound to ask whether you think subconsciously you might have been although the new testament has a parable of a ploughworker suddenly uncovering a treasure the meaning of course is like your own experience
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- the idea of gods just seemed meaningless and therefore the whole concept was irrelevant other than where other people's religious beliefs constrained or impinged on my day to day life e.g. school requiring me to attend religious assemblies - having to get lots of late marks and admonitions about my time-keeping because being forced to listen to the head pontificate about good and bad in religious terms or Jesus dying for my sins was irritating.
So were religious ideas meaningless or irritating to you? I was actually told by my parents to avoid holy talk of any kind. I did have an uncle who was openly evangelical but I recall my mother, after his rare visits sweeping the house for religious tracts some of which he had authored, bibles, etc and my father treated him as a figure of fun.
Quote
My reaction to being forced to listen to this type of think was to push back and force religious people to listen to my views - so I wrote in large black letters on the back of my lab coat "God did not create Man, Man created God". I am fairly certain I succeeded in irritating the religious back, which only seemed fair. As far as I was concerned we were even - they shoved religion down my throat and I shoved atheism down theirs. It seemed a good balance but then suddenly the school banned everyone from writing on our lab coats and we all had to wash all the writing off or get new ones.
And here you are, a theist!

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2021, 10:07:57 AM »
God isn't an ultimate reality. You are just posting what you want to be real.
What can I say, Trent.....I expected you to say God may not be an ultimate reality(although philosophically He is)? But no, you seemed whipped up by this talk enough to declare God isn't an ultimate reality(positive assertion).
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You are just posting what you feel
(Another positive assertion) Since you have made two positive assertions, you know what you have to do.
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I don't have mild ire or sweet agreement,
No, it doesn't sound like it.
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maybe bafflement at your increasingly complex justifications and twisty turny reasoning.
And yet I don't suppose that bafflement extends to , in the experience of ''coming out, denial of one's own sexuality, self denial of one's own sexuality, avoidance behaviour of
one's own sexuality are all accepted phenomena whereas any of these outside that sphere are ''baffling''.
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I pay very little heed to Dawkins.
that has proved to be the wise policy.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 10:13:54 AM by Walt Zingmatilder »

Aruntraveller

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2021, 10:16:17 AM »
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Since you have made two positive assertions, you know what you have to do.

I think you need to prove your assertion first. That is, I understand, the way these things work.

Quote
And yet I don't suppose that bafflement extends to , in the experience of ''coming out, denial of one's own sexuality, self denial of one's own sexuality, avoidance behaviour of
one's own sexuality are all accepted phenomena whereas any of these outside that sphere are impossible experiences.

There is absolute proof for homosexuality (if you need guidance I can point you towards various websites) in a way that I would suggest there is not for the existence of God.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Enki

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2021, 10:36:16 AM »
God is definitionally as far as we and reality are concerned is, in anybodies book an ultimate reality, in the same order as an infinitely old and eternal universe or a universe that ops out of nothing. We will never know for sure which or either of these  two universes is the real thing. God on the other hand is perfectly free to allow people to be aware and react to himself.

For you, it obviously is, but as God is of no personal significance to me, for me, it isn't.

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And that is precisely what started happening the moment you just read this since your response would have either been mild ire or sweet agreement. Mild ire that I had introduced get outs from the two possible alternatives to God or mild ire against the agnostic position..........or mild ire at having to go to the ''unknown unknowns'' gambit.

What you feel or think is entirely up to you. From my position, I feel no particular emotion when reading your views. Is there any reason why I should? Do you feel 'mild ire or sweet agreement' when reading the views of the agnostic atheist position?

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My encounter therefore stimulated within me in turns, a questioning of my moral status, reception of a temporary ability to  complete focus on a single thing, God, I was faced with a decision to open or close myself to God in the knowledge that I could, whatever the choice not deny my encounter I am not ashamed of any feelings I had as a consequence although many I couldn't resist having and some I didn't want at all, your notion of a free floating feeling without stimulus being debateable, although I know christians and of christians who have no stand out feelings at the point I was at.

All that signifies is how you came to believe in your idea of God and what effect it had on you. Obviously that is significant for you and that's fine by me. I questioned(and still question) all sorts of things, but, from a personal point of view, the idea of the existence of your God has very low priority and very low significance. That's just the way it is.

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I don't believe my arguments on here are based around feelings but more philosophical. Although I strongly council your examination of your own feelings e.g. do you find you draw comfort from any atheistic philosophy, do you, for instance, stop worrying when Richard Dawkins states there probably isn't a God ( Atheist Bus Campaign)

Maybe that is one major difference between us. I don't even wish to council you on these things. You are quite capable, I assume. of examining your own feelings, without someone else muddying the waters. I don't draw comfort or otherwise from my atheistic attitude, hence your introducing Richard Dawkins into your comments seems to say more about your own fixations than it does mine.

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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2021, 01:14:51 PM »
For you, it obviously is, but as God is of no personal significance to me, for me, it isn't.

But as I keep being told personal significance is irrelevant in the matter of whether God exists or not. Also unfortunately for your personal significance(head in the sand?) theory God had no personal significance for me. Now look at me.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2021, 01:21:24 PM »
I think you need to prove your assertion first. That is, I understand, the way these things work.

There is absolute proof for homosexuality (if you need guidance I can point you towards various websites) in a way that I would suggest there is not for the existence of God.
No, there is no queue in proving a positive assertion there is just onus and you made two today. All positive assertions require an onus.......... get on with yours.

Did I say homosexuality does not exist? There does however remain the possibility, since it is a feeling, that it does not exist(your theory Trent) and the behaviours demonstrating it are motivated by something else. We only have the behaviours to go on and it is certainly behaviours that atheists judge religion by.

There is also the question mark hanging over you....why you accept self denial and denial in the matter of ''coming out'' but fail to extend this acceptance to the ''issue of coming out'' as a sinner/convert.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 01:25:41 PM by Walt Zingmatilder »

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2021, 01:50:38 PM »
God is definitionally as far as we and reality are concerned is, in anybodies book an ultimate reality, in the same order as an infinitely old and eternal universe or a universe that ops out of nothing. We will never know for sure which or either of these  two universes is the real thing. God on the other hand is perfectly free to allow people to be aware and react to himself.
What would you say is your reaction to the origin of the universe? Because my reaction is that the origin hasn't been demonstrated so I am not aware of the origin of the universe so I live my life without taking into account the origin of the universe in my day to day decisions or having a reaction to the origin of the universe. How about you?

When you say God is free to allow people to be aware and react to himself, wouldn't someone first need to have a concept of an immaterial entity in order to be able to be aware of and react to it? Unless you mean bafflement is a reaction - similar to the bafflement one would feel if they heard a made-up language that did not follow any consistent rules. If there are no consistent rules relating to God what is the method to detect or measure or understand mathematically or conceptually to be aware of what God is in order to have a reaction? You and I have both been atheists apparently. I don't know about you but my recollection was that as an atheist I didn't think about God except when other people brought it up and I had a reaction to their descriptions, not to God, as I had no awareness of God.

We can't prove the origins of the universe or God. But we can't apply the same concept of reality to an immaterial God that we apply to the material things we can objectively detect and measure that are part of what we refer to as the universe. With the objectivity we are able to make accurate predictions about actions and reactions and forces in our environment that act on us. We can't objectively detect or measure anything in relation to God to make any consistent predictions about the effect of an immaterial God. There is no similar level of accuracy and predictability and consistency demonstrated in relation to God. With God we have conflicting predictions of reincarnation/ an after-life/ a Judgement Day/ good consequences if you believe Jesus is God/ bad consequences if you believe Jesus is God/ conflicting rules about diet, human relationships etc. And because we can't objectively measure anything related to God that's a pretty big difference between the universe and God.

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And that is precisely what started happening the moment you just read this since your response would have either been mild ire or sweet agreement. Mild ire that I had introduced get outs from the two possible alternatives to God or mild ire against the agnostic position..........or mild ire at having to go to the ''unknown unknowns'' gambit.
You seem to be describing a reaction to your words about God rather than a reaction to God? If you posted different words it would cause a different reaction.
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My encounter therefore stimulated within me in turns, a questioning of my moral status, reception of a temporary ability to  complete focus on a single thing, God, I was faced with a decision to open or close myself to God in the knowledge that I could, whatever the choice not deny my encounter I am not ashamed of any feelings I had as a consequence although many I couldn't resist having and some I didn't want at all, your notion of a free floating feeling without stimulus being debateable, although I know christians and of christians who have no stand out feelings at the point I was at.
Ok you felt a reaction. How did you arrive at the conclusion you had encountered God rather than just encountered some words, thoughts, ideas about God?

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I don't believe my arguments on here are based around feelings but more philosophical. Although I strongly council your examination of your own feelings e.g. do you find you draw comfort from any atheistic philosophy, do you, for instance, stop worrying when Richard Dawkins states there probably isn't a God ( Atheist Bus Campaign)
What are your philosophical arguments for God?

What feelings do you have when you think about your philosophical arguments for God?

I would like to know your philosophical arguments in order to try to identify any feelings I have when I read the words that make up your philosophical arguments.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2021, 02:59:38 PM »
Goddodgery is the conscious or subconscious avoidance of God/the truth of God and the manifest behaviours which ensue. Avoiding something doesn't then require an overt or conscious belief in it. Belief could also be masked by self delusion and the desire for whatever reason to overtly maintain the status quo of atheism. I do know a believer who, at his own admission, publicly continued to profess atheism even though he had encountered God.

I am bound to ask whether you think subconsciously you might have been although the new testament has a parable of a ploughworker suddenly uncovering a treasure the meaning of course is like your own experience So were religious ideas meaningless or irritating to you? I was actually told by my parents to avoid holy talk of any kind. I did have an uncle who was openly evangelical but I recall my mother, after his rare visits sweeping the house for religious tracts some of which he had authored, bibles, etc and my father treated him as a figure of fun. And here you are, a theist!
I am not sure what you mean when you say belief could be masked by self delusion. It's possible. But that then leads me to allow the possibility that everything we write on this forum might not be what we really think and our real thoughts could be masked by self delusion. For example it's possible that you and I could be self-deluded into thinking we are Christian and Muslim when in fact for both of us, our real beliefs are Hindu beliefs. How would we ever know if we are self-deluded about our Christian and Muslim beliefs?

We could be consciously/ sub-consciously avoiding the truth of Hinduism and reincarnation and the behaviours that would ensue because we have a reason for professing Christian and Muslim beliefs that don't subscribe to reincarnation. But how to have any discussion on that basis if we have to constantly think we are self-deluded and keep doubting our thoughts?

Yes I am a theist - because it works for me now. The words spoken by the religious up until then used to cause a negative reaction because they lacked any logical, consistent or definitive concepts - it was all belief, supposition, endless possibilities of what could be true, no objective evidence, so not surprisingly none of it was convincing enough to generate a belief in any of it. Without belief it all seemed like nothing more than silly rituals and baffling words that made no sense and I couldn't see the logic of accepting any particular conflicting unevidenced belief over another. Is that what you mean by avoiding? If it was avoidance it was based on a lack of time - so many thousands of conflicting beliefs so where do I start in trying to pick one to try to engage with it, and even if I did pick one I soon had someone babbling illogical nonsense about their particular version of that belief, which inevitably led to a negative reaction to their words and beliefs.

However, at some point I became aware that I actually had a positive reaction to some words I read about God - it happened to be in the Quran. I also had a positive reaction to the words I heard spoken by people who did not claim certainty of knowledge about anything related to gods or religious beliefs. Maybe that positive reaction was the start of belief and I certainly didn't choose or have any control over that reaction. It led to me reading more about religious philosophical beliefs that did not involve certainty of knowledge and it got to the point where I could see a point to belief in God but I could also see the point of being atheist. Each position brings its own costs and benefits and reactions so I can appreciate the positive aspects of atheism and theism and I can also appreciate the negative aspects of both.

When my theist thoughts, reactions and practices seemed to have a better outcome for me, not surprisingly I continued with those thoughts and practices and tried out a few additional ones. If they seem to feel beneficial I continue with them. I measure what is a better outcome based on the feelings those outcomes invoke in me. My religion often helps me regulate my reactions, especially my feelings and interactions with other people. It's an additional tool to the non-religious tools I used as an atheist. These are all emotional concepts and it could be a self-delusion masking my atheism but as I can neither prove or disprove this possible self-delusion, I figure why worry about it.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Enki

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2021, 03:12:09 PM »
But as I keep being told personal significance is irrelevant in the matter of whether God exists or not.

I didn't say it was significant. You appear to think that it is however whereas as I made clear, I don't.

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Also unfortunately for your personal significance(head in the sand?) theory God had no personal significance for me.  Now look at me.

Haven't a clue as to why that is unfortunate for me? What you thought and felt or how you changed  has little bearing on my own views. As you have never been able to give any sound arguments as to why your God does actually exist(as distinct from just the possibility that it exists) why on earth should I look at you?
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Aruntraveller

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2021, 04:59:31 PM »
No, there is no queue in proving a positive assertion there is just onus and you made two today. All positive assertions require an onus.......... get on with yours.

Did I say homosexuality does not exist? There does however remain the possibility, since it is a feeling, that it does not exist(your theory Trent) and the behaviours demonstrating it are motivated by something else. We only have the behaviours to go on and it is certainly behaviours that atheists judge religion by.

There is also the question mark hanging over you....why you accept self denial and denial in the matter of ''coming out'' but fail to extend this acceptance to the ''issue of coming out'' as a sinner/convert.

Still I'll wait for proof of your positive assertion that "God is an ultimate reality".

As I said before twisty turny. I really don't want to waste time explaining to you why fairies at the bottom of your garden are not the same as fairies in Heaven.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2021, 07:24:30 PM »
Still I'll wait for proof of your positive assertion that "God is an ultimate reality".

As I said before twisty turny. I really don't want to waste time explaining to you why fairies at the bottom of your garden are not the same as fairies in Heaven.
God is one of the ultimate realities postulated by philosophy Trent. I don't have to prove that it's in the books along with an eternal universe without God and a universe popped out of nothing(Hume).

I don't know your fairiology but your philosophy needs a bit of attention.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2021, 10:38:22 PM »
God is one of the ultimate realities postulated by philosophy Trent. I don't have to prove that it's in the books along with an eternal universe without God and a universe popped out of nothing(Hume).

I don't know your fairiology but your philosophy needs a bit of attention.

You are not correct, my philosophy needs a lot of attention. You are still comparing apples and dolphins though.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

torridon

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2021, 07:22:08 AM »
God is one of the ultimate realities postulated by philosophy Trent. I don't have to prove that it's in the books along with an eternal universe without God and a universe popped out of nothing(Hume).

I don't know your fairiology but your philosophy needs a bit of attention.

God being postulated by philosophy does not equate to it being correct.  Philosophy has postulated many things over the years. As it happens, surveys reveal that most living philosophers are atheist.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2021, 09:21:18 AM »
God being postulated by philosophy does not equate to it being correct.  Philosophy has postulated many things over the years. As it happens, surveys reveal that most living philosophers are atheist.
Oh no not again. We know this. But you are using it in a tricksy fashion. It doesn't mean it's correct.......end of story/message. The full message of course SHOULD be it doesn't mean it's correct and it doesn't mean it's incorrect. You just state the second part and angry atheists call NPF or whatever the fallacy of the day.

This is no trivial matter considering atheists are betting the house on it not being correct and pushing that aspect philosophically.

torridon

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #47 on: August 15, 2021, 09:26:13 AM »
Oh no not again. We know this. But you are using it in a tricksy fashion. It doesn't mean it's correct.......end of story/message. The full message of course SHOULD be it doesn't mean it's correct and it doesn't mean it's incorrect. You just state the second part and angry atheists call NPF or whatever the fallacy of the day.

This is no trivial matter considering atheists are betting the house on it not being correct and pushing that aspect philosophically.

You're reading too much into it. There are lots of truth claims in the world, most will be incorrect, that is just statistics. As a good a-unicornist, are you betting the house on there being no unicorns ?

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2021, 09:31:59 AM »
You're reading too much into it. There are lots of truth claims in the world, most will be incorrect, that is just statistics. As a good a-unicornist, are you betting the house on there being no unicorns ?
Comparing God and unicorns is IMV trivialising the philosophical definitions and philosophical implications. It starts a priori with the fairy story.
Given that, if unicorns exist, so what? When you have a god free eternal universe and a universe popped out of nothing why make recourse to unicorns.

torridon

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Re: Atheism ends today
« Reply #49 on: August 15, 2021, 09:40:32 AM »
Comparing God and unicorns is IMV trivialising the philosophical definitions and philosophical implications. It starts a priori with the fairy story.
Given that, if unicorns exist, so what? When you have a god free eternal universe and a universe popped out of nothing why make recourse to unicorns.

Trivialising something may sometimes be a useful way to get the point across.