Should he stay or should he go?

[Anchorman]

Apparently Boris the Liar plans to elevate that prize moron Nadine Dorries to the House of Lords: yet another reason to get rid of that institution.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/16/johnson-plan-peerages-early-byelections-nadine-dorries-nigel-adams

     
On the plus side, she'd have to give up her seat.
Every cloud.......

[ProfessorDavey]

For Winchester you can get a bursary or scholarship ( apparently 20% of the students do) and meet the rest of the payments with or without sacrifices according to circumstances.

But Sunak has been clear in interviews that he didn't receive a bursary or scholarship.

Most professional (eg GPs, pharmacists with their own business etc) parents could afford other  independent schools (eg. King Edwards VI in Southampton),  again with or without sacrifices: mostly choices about houses, second homes, cars or expensive holidays.

I'm not sure that is really true - I think professionals, particularly in the public sector would struggle to put three children through private school from the age of 5 without some other source of funds. Don't forget that people tend to be in the relatively early stages of a professional career when kids come along. Rishi's parents would have been in their early/mid 30s when starting to fork out, plus you need to factor in potential loss of earnings for the mother taking maternity breaks.

And if you are sending your kids to private school you need to factor in all the costs above and beyond the fees - so uniform and equipment can be eye watering and there is often an expectation that students will go on expensive extra-curricular trips etc.

So certainly in my experience (I know plenty of people you have sent their kids privately) you need pretty serious money to do so for multiple kids from the age of 5. It isn't uncommon for others to contribute, for example grandparents etc. Also not uncommon for parents to send their kids to state schools initially but then go private from the age of 11 - saves you a load of money.

But you also might want to consider a little more about Rishi's background - he is from Indian/East African tradition - his parents were both born in East Africa (Kenya and Tanzania), not in India. And that community was traditionally pretty rich with many being successful business people in countries such as Uganda, Kenya etc. So it is quite likely that there was some considerably wealth within the family prior to his parents relocating to the UK. Also, apparently one of his grandparents was awarded an MBE - again suggests we are dealing with a fairly establishment family.

[Udayana]

But Sunak has been clear in interviews that he didn't receive a bursary or scholarship.
...

An interesting post, Prof, but seems to me to be quite speculative, without a great understanding of how people, especially Asians, conduct their affairs. Though private education and finance are really off-topic  and in danger of revealing too many personal details I could relate some of my own history:

I do not know Sunak or his family and have not looked into their story, but do live a few miles from Southampton; Although I don't normally consider myself as living in a particular community, I could say that my local community is of South Asian origin people who arrived here from Africa - Uganda, Kenya and Tanzania. I am socially engaged with that community and have known many people in it over many years.   
I have also put our two children through the private education system ('til university). Note that I am talking about private day schooling, not boarding - which makes a big difference. 
ETA: Should also mention  that we are discussing financial and educational eras that are completely different wrt. the options possible - preThatcher, Thatcher, Blair, post-Blair.



Practically all Asians who arrived here from Africa during the 60's, no matter how well off they had been there, arrived with no money. Nearly everyone I know from that situation here arrived with barely £5 and no other goods or savings. Some had had good education and some were able to borrow money from relatives still in India. After arrival many worked in everyday normal jobs to retirement, others have built fortunes and earned knighthoods and honours. In all cases they saved what money they were able to and have been self-reliant thoughout their lives. Those that were financially successful (mostly self-employed) sent their children to independent schools, others to state schools - but in all cases they have paid for everything from their own savings - not bought anything on the never-never. 
       
My eldest uncle arrived in the UK, from India, on business just as WWII broke out but was trapped here (after his ship was torpedoed on the return voyage) during the war. He had no money but managed to start and run business such that he was able to send for his two brothers (one of whom was my father) just before the independence of India. Over the next two decades they built a fortune but then, between them, managed to lose it gambling and socialising. This meant that I went through university (after grammar school) penniless, without a grant and the minimum possible support from my mum. After uni I was flat broke .. I found work in an industry that was starting to boom and built up my earnings rapidly to settle into a comfortable, but not outstanding, salary for a professional technical (not managerial) role in IT.     

My wife came to the UK with her parents from India in the 60's, they found jobs in the state education system on very modest wages. She has mostly worked on low public sector wages in council services and community roles. When it came time to send our children to school we decided to send them through the private system as we could trust the education provided by local independent schools, where the state schools were in a mess after a decade of Thatcherism.  Now, very few of my peers (mostly white English) in my workplace took the same option, they, even the managerial ranks, practically all chose the state system. We managed to afford the fees by budgeting carefully and saving where possible - I can't say we suffered or scrimped to afford them. We got to know many of the parents of other children in the private schools we chose, and very few of them could be considered particularly wealthy - just a sort of normal middle class - doctors, business managers, engineers, academics and self-employed small business people.

My industry peers earned around the same or more than me, I could not not understand what on earth they were spending their money on. In the end I have decided that it was on maximising the sizes of their homes and cars - both requiring huge mortgages or loans. They may leave huge estates when they die - or may not depending on the outstanding loans and taxes.

We had a modest house (never moved in fact) and modest cars. Never had any loans apart from an initial mortgage (at high Thatcher era interest rates)- pretty much the same as all the other Asian origin families around here - even those that have now bought themselves huge mansion like (to me) houses.
     
To me what is important is how well you are able to use your brain - not how much stuff you have or leave behind when you die.
 

[SusanDoris]

Udayana

Very interesting post

[Aruntraveller]

Very informative post Udayana.

Just to emphasise the point. My partner's family arrived here from Tanzania in 1962 with very little money and three suitcases. That was a mother and 5 children, Dad had been sent on ahead 6 months earlier. They didn't, or couldn't afford to go down the road of private education. What their Mum did was work for the civil service and encouraged her children to do so as well, recognising the stability it offered. This may have been a reaction to the instability felt of having to move from what I  gather was quite a comfortable and privileged lifestyle in East Africa, to living in a squalid one-bedroomed flat in one of the gloomier parts of South London sharing bathroom facilities with another family.

Anyway, all 5 children were mortgage free by their mid 30's, due in large part to something you identified, never buy anything on the never-never, and don't buy something you don't need.

 Also, they make things last forever.

So what if your cooker door doesn't close properly?

That's what magnets are for.

Many people give up on socks when they get a hole in them. To this day not my partner.

Have you never heard of darning?

[ProfessorDavey]

An interesting post, Prof, but seems to me to be quite speculative, without a great understanding of how people, especially Asians, conduct their affairs. Though private education and finance are really off-topic  and in danger of revealing too many personal details I could relate some of my own history:

I do not know Sunak or his family and have not looked into their story, but do live a few miles from Southampton; Although I don't normally consider myself as living in a particular community, I could say that my local community is of South Asian origin people who arrived here from Africa - Uganda, Kenya and Tanzania. I am socially engaged with that community and have known many people in it over many years.   
I have also put our two children through the private education system ('til university). Note that I am talking about private day schooling, not boarding - which makes a big difference. 
ETA: Should also mention  that we are discussing financial and educational eras that are completely different wrt. the options possible - preThatcher, Thatcher, Blair, post-Blair.



Practically all Asians who arrived here from Africa during the 60's, no matter how well off they had been there, arrived with no money. Nearly everyone I know from that situation here arrived with barely £5 and no other goods or savings. Some had had good education and some were able to borrow money from relatives still in India. After arrival many worked in everyday normal jobs to retirement, others have built fortunes and earned knighthoods and honours. In all cases they saved what money they were able to and have been self-reliant thoughout their lives. Those that were financially successful (mostly self-employed) sent their children to independent schools, others to state schools - but in all cases they have paid for everything from their own savings - not bought anything on the never-never. 
       
My eldest uncle arrived in the UK, from India, on business just as WWII broke out but was trapped here (after his ship was torpedoed on the return voyage) during the war. He had no money but managed to start and run business such that he was able to send for his two brothers (one of whom was my father) just before the independence of India. Over the next two decades they built a fortune but then, between them, managed to lose it gambling and socialising. This meant that I went through university (after grammar school) penniless, without a grant and the minimum possible support from my mum. After uni I was flat broke .. I found work in an industry that was starting to boom and built up my earnings rapidly to settle into a comfortable, but not outstanding, salary for a professional technical (not managerial) role in IT.     

My wife came to the UK with her parents from India in the 60's, they found jobs in the state education system on very modest wages. She has mostly worked on low public sector wages in council services and community roles. When it came time to send our children to school we decided to send them through the private system as we could trust the education provided by local independent schools, where the state schools were in a mess after a decade of Thatcherism.  Now, very few of my peers (mostly white English) in my workplace took the same option, they, even the managerial ranks, practically all chose the state system. We managed to afford the fees by budgeting carefully and saving where possible - I can't say we suffered or scrimped to afford them. We got to know many of the parents of other children in the private schools we chose, and very few of them could be considered particularly wealthy - just a sort of normal middle class - doctors, business managers, engineers, academics and self-employed small business people.

My industry peers earned around the same or more than me, I could not not understand what on earth they were spending their money on. In the end I have decided that it was on maximising the sizes of their homes and cars - both requiring huge mortgages or loans. They may leave huge estates when they die - or may not depending on the outstanding loans and taxes.

We had a modest house (never moved in fact) and modest cars. Never had any loans apart from an initial mortgage (at high Thatcher era interest rates)- pretty much the same as all the other Asian origin families around here - even those that have now bought themselves huge mansion like (to me) houses.
     
To me what is important is how well you are able to use your brain - not how much stuff you have or leave behind when you die.

Thanks for sharing, but your experience doesn't sound one bit like Rishi's.

You are talking about building up some savings over decades - this wasn't the case for the Sunaks. The biog suggests they met in East Africa after they'd trained and by 1980 when Sunak was born they were in Southampton aged 27 and 31 - you do the maths. They could only have been in the UK for a couple of years or so before Sunak was born.

Also you are correct day fees are different to boarding fees and the type of school is important. But Sunak was a boarder at one of the most expensive schools in the UK. Currently boarding fees there are three times the average (note average not lowest) private day school fees.

And also note that from their biog it is reported that once Sunak's sister was born they'd moved to a 6 bed house in a rather nice part of Southampton. So doesn't really sound like scrimping and saving if when you are having your second child you can afford to move to a 6 bed house and shortly start paying private school fees, which for three kids would probably last for the next 15-20 years.

Add to that that in the 1980s maternity cover was nothing like it is now so Rishi's mother probably had periods where she wasn't earning when her three children were babies, so they'd be operating on a single salary of a GP at a relatively early stage in his career.

So not it doesn't add up even with Rishi's claimed sacrifices made by his parents (which doesn't really square with being able to afford a 6 bed house and be sending their kids to private schools).

Nope it doesn't add up without some other form of income in the background. And Sunak's family doesn't sound anything like yours for the reasons I've mentioned.

[ProfessorDavey]

Just to emphasise the point. My partner's family arrived here from Tanzania in 1962 with very little money and three suitcases. That was a mother and 5 children, Dad had been sent on ahead 6 months earlier. They didn't, or couldn't afford to go down the road of private education. What their Mum did was work for the civil service and encouraged her children to do so as well, recognising the stability it offered. This may have been a reaction to the instability felt of having to move from what I  gather was quite a comfortable and privileged lifestyle in East Africa, to living in a squalid one-bedroomed flat in one of the gloomier parts of South London sharing bathroom facilities with another family.

Which doesn't seem to fit with the Sunak experience - likely relocated in the late 70s yet within a couple of years were living in a rather nice residential road with a young baby Sunak and a couple years later able to afford not just a 6 bedroom house but to send child number one (and thereafter the other two children) not just to private school but just about the most expensive private education going - being a boarder at Winchester College.

[Anchorman]

Part of one of the nations Johnson is supposed to lead is going into a climate-induced red weather warning.
There's an emergency COBRA meeting in Downingstreet....
So Johnson throws a leaving bash at Chequers.
Says it all, really.

[Aruntraveller]

Which doesn't seem to fit with the Sunak experience - likely relocated in the late 70s yet within a couple of years were living in a rather nice residential road with a young baby Sunak and a couple years later able to afford not just a 6 bedroom house but to send child number one (and thereafter the other two children) not just to private school but just about the most expensive private education going - being a boarder at Winchester College.

Yes sorry. I agree you can't say that Sunak's case is like others just because of the more general experience of Asians from East Africa. That must be some sort of "argumentum ad..."

Anyway, I think I maybe digressed more than I should have. 

[ProfessorDavey]

Yes sorry. I agree you can't say that Sunak's case is like others just because of the more general experience of Asians from East Africa. That must be some sort of "argumentum ad..."

Anyway, I think I maybe digressed more than I should have. 

I agree - just because some people emigrated from East Africa to the UK in the 1960s with next to nothing doesn't mean a specific couple had next to nothing.

And apparently (according to the BMA) average GPs salaries adjusted to todays money were about £60k through the 1980s and 1990s. Pharmacists would be less. You do the maths - work out the take home pay and determine if is that going to sufficient to send three children through private school (and not just a bog standard private school but one with annual fees again in today's money of nigh on £45k) plus afford the mortgage on a 6 bed house (remember what interest rates were back then). Nope doesn't add up.

My suspicion is that there was some significant inherited or other wealth lurking in the background. This is often the case - plenty of kids private school fees are paid by the grandparents, directly or through trust funds, not by the parents.

[Udayana]

I agree - just because some people emigrated from East Africa to the UK in the 1960s with next to nothing doesn't mean a specific couple had next to nothing.

And apparently (according to the BMA) average GPs salaries adjusted to todays money were about £60k through the 1980s and 1990s. Pharmacists would be less. You do the maths - work out the take home pay and determine if is that going to sufficient to send three children through private school (and not just a bog standard private school but one with annual fees again in today's money of nigh on £45k) plus afford the mortgage on a 6 bed house (remember what interest rates were back then). Nope doesn't add up.

My suspicion is that there was some significant inherited or other wealth lurking in the background. This is often the case - plenty of kids private school fees are paid by the grandparents, directly or through trust funds, not by the parents.

OK, I can accept that Sunak's family were far wealthier than other arrivals from East Africa, but can't see where you are going with this. #

Is it illegal or unethical for grandparents to pay school fees or pass on money to their descendants? Or are you suggesting that Sunak is somehow otherwise benefiting from illegal, unethical or unfair money transfers?
 

[ProfessorDavey]

OK, I can accept that Sunak's family were far wealthier than other arrivals from East Africa, but can't see where you are going with this. #

Is it illegal or unethical for grandparents to pay school fees or pass on money to their descendants? Or are you suggesting that Sunak is somehow otherwise benefiting from illegal, unethical or unfair money transfers?
 

Of course it isn't illegal or unethical.

The issue I have is that Sunak has sold us all a humble origins story, which frankly isn't true. His campaign launch video literally starts with 'Let me tell you a story of a young woman who boarded a plane armed with hope for a better life ...' - classic rags to riches stuff. But conveniently fails to mention that over several generations his family was clearly upper middle class, stuffed with engineers, doctors, senior civil servants. That's the issue - Rishi's story isn't rags to riches, boy done good from working class origins, it is the story of a boy born into an already privileged environment catapulted from his school days into an exceptionally privileged environment.

In the video he doesn't want us to see (and certainly is completely different to the narrative he spins in his launch video), fresh from Winchester and Oxford he boasts that he has "friends who are aristocrats, I have friends who are upper-class, I have friends who are, you know, working-class", before correcting himself immediately: "Well, not working-class."

[Udayana]

Of course it isn't illegal or unethical.

The issue I have is that Sunak has sold us all a humble origins story, which frankly isn't true. His campaign launch video literally starts with 'Let me tell you a story of a young woman who boarded a plane armed with hope for a better life ...' - classic rags to riches stuff. But conveniently fails to mention that over several generations his family was clearly upper middle class, stuffed with engineers, doctors, senior civil servants. That's the issue - Rishi's story isn't rags to riches, boy done good from working class origins, it is the story of a boy born into an already privileged environment catapulted from his school days into an exceptionally privileged environment.

In the video he doesn't want us to see (and certainly is completely different to the narrative he spins in his launch video), fresh from Winchester and Oxford he boasts that he has "friends who are aristocrats, I have friends who are upper-class, I have friends who are, you know, working-class", before correcting himself immediately: "Well, not working-class."

Ah, I see ... that's the kind of PR/twitter nonsense they've all been using to boost their "like" rates.

But he has been Chancellor for over two years under Johnson - so we already know he is a liar and hypocrite. We know he has put in place ludicrously unfair policies and easily defrauded schemes. That, instead of restoring regulations and controls to stabilise the economy, he, even yesterday, adopted Truss' deregulatory approach (to get "brexit benefits" after we have been told endlessly that Johnson had got "brexit done") to allow further chaos. That he is working for the banks not the people. 

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Which doesn't seem to fit with the Sunak experience - likely relocated in the late 70s yet within a couple of years were living in a rather nice residential road with a young baby Sunak and a couple years later able to afford not just a 6 bedroom house but to send child number one (and thereafter the other two children) not just to private school but just about the most expensive private education going - being a boarder at Winchester College.

Your speculations about Sunak's parents' wealth are not convincing PD. Similar to others from an Asian background, my parents came to the UK in 1971 with nothing. When my father arrived to do an MSc with no money - his bursary had fallen through - he summoned my mother to the UK who left behind a 6 month old baby and a 2 year old. My mother (a doctor) financially supported my father while he did his Engineering MSc at Birmingham, living in Birmingham hospital accommodation. My father borrowed money from a cousin in the UK - the cousin in the UK got the money (£20 a considerable amount in 1971) from a bank loan with no idea on how he would repay it to the bank. He just posted it to my father no questions asked.

Asian mentality when it comes to education means you will live on ordinary food, not go out much, spend little, borrow to finance it. I grew up in a household where we did not go abroad on holiday most of my childhood, very rarely had take-aways and never went to restaurants, because those funds were needed to support the education of many relatives. My parents bought a 3 bed semi-detached house in Harrow (suburb of London) in 1974 as my grandparents and my brother and I came to the UK in 1973. My grandparents did not work. Not sure how expensive a a 6 bed house in Southampton would have been compared to a 3 bed house in Harrow.

My brother and I went to private school for our secondary school education and in 1980 my parents bought a 4-bed detached house in a nice part of London near the tube station. My dad took a risk and got a big mortgage for the house - this was just after the 17% interest rates in the late 1970s. My dad got a job working for a private company in Nigeria in the late 1970s so we could not depend on his salary as Nigeria could not get foreign currency to pay his salary regularly - so my parents bought a 4 bed detached house in London and sent us to private school and funded the education of other relatives on my mother's salary working as a doctor for the NHS. So I can believe that Sunak's parents could send their children to private school and Sunak to Winchester. My dad did not get paid any salary from Nigeria for over a year. in the 1970s. Even after he left the job in Nigeria in the late 1980s - he was owed about 2 years' salary, which the company eventually paid about 2 years after he left their employment. I remember interest  rates were pretty high in the late 1980s as well.

 It was affordable because in our household no one drank, smoked, bought expensive clothes or toys or gadgets nor ate out and my parents were careful with money and managed to make the mortgage repayments. I remember having a happy childhood, with educational day trips and visiting relatives where we would receive presents of books and be quizzed on our timetables and fed lots of tasty home-cooked food. Education was just very important to many aspirational Asians and parents managed to sacrifice a lot and make ends meet. 

A family friend who was also an NHS doctor sent his son to Eton during the 1980s because his son was exceptionally bright. Like Sunak's parents, this family friend also did a lot for his community - he was voluntary headmaster of a Saturday school for our ethnic community to learn our native language and culture. The school and the local temple also ran classes to tutor O'Level and A'Level students.  I think the Sunak experience is typical of aspirational Asians with bright motivated, children.

[SusanDoris]

Of course it isn't illegal or unethical.

The issue I have is that Sunak has sold us all a humble origins story, which frankly isn't true. His campaign launch video literally starts with 'Let me tell you a story of a young woman who boarded a plane armed with hope for a better life ...' - classic rags to riches stuff. But conveniently fails to mention that over several generations his family was clearly upper middle class, stuffed with engineers, doctors, senior civil servants. That's the issue - Rishi's story isn't rags to riches, boy done good from working class origins, it is the story of a boy born into an already privileged environment catapulted from his school days into an exceptionally privileged environment.

In the video he doesn't want us to see (and certainly is completely different to the narrative he spins in his launch video), fresh from Winchester and Oxford he boasts that he has "friends who are aristocrats, I have friends who are upper-class, I have friends who are, you know, working-class", before correcting himself immediately: "Well, not working-class."

Thank you for mentioning all that. I can't see videos, but even if I could hear it, my computer skills are not really up to it!

from what I have heard (on Five Live  and here on R&E), I think Penny Mordaunt is perhaps the most likely as far as I'm concerned.

There was a body language expert on Five ive last night who was in the audience as far as I could make out, and her comments on the body language of all four were very interesting.)

Gabriella

I admire your parents' and family's approcch to lie. Never smoking and being able to almost count the number of alcoholic drink I have had on my fingers (and toes!) and never liking any of it anyway, are reasons why I have been able to manage money since being on my own.

[Udayana]

Your speculations about Sunak's parents' wealth are not convincing PD. Similar to others from an Asian background, my parents came to the UK in 1971 with nothing.
...

Very interesting Gabriella, and confirms the general experiences of those families that managed to dig in and do well.

I'm also beginning to suspect that PD has mixed up Sunak's paternal grandparents story with that of his parents (?)

[Udayana]

Thank you for mentioning all that. I can't see videos, but even if I could hear it, my computer skills are not really up to it!

from what I have heard (on Five Live  and here on R&E), I think Penny Mordaunt is perhaps the most likely as far as I'm concerned.

There was a body language expert on Five ive last night who was in the audience as far as I could make out, and her comments on the body language of all four were very interesting.)

Gabriella

I admire your parents' and family's approcch to lie. Never smoking and being able to almost count the number of alcoholic drink I have had on my fingers (and toes!) and never liking any of it anyway, are reasons why I have been able to manage money since being on my own.

Oh dear SD, why would you need body language when you can hear and analyse what they actually claim and propose. Mordaunt clearly has no plan or understanding of how to put one together - particularly on the economic issues. Who would she have as Chancellor? 

The biggest thing in her favour is that she speaks slowly and clearly - always an advantage!
 

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Very interesting Gabriella, and confirms the general experiences of those families that managed to dig in and do well.

I'm also beginning to suspect that PD has mixed up Sunak's paternal grandparents story with that of his parents (?)

Not sure but I think if you haven't experienced it you can't imagine it's possible. I grew up here in the UK and I find it hard to imagine it's possible because my mindset is far less aspirational than my parents though I have inherited the careful spending approach, but nowhere near to the extent they took it.

Regarding what my parents achieved, I forgot to mention that my parents rented out their 4 bed house when I went to university and left the country and within a year bought a 2nd property - a 3 bed flat in London off Kensington High Street in the borough of Hammersmith & Fulham. My parents were both paid as employees so normal tax-payers - although admittedly my dad had been paid in GBP as an ex-pat for a year before they bought the 2nd property as he was living and working in Pakistan at this time, on the Afghan border, but for a UK engineering consultancy company. It was a time in Pakistan/ Afghanistan when foreign company workers were being kidnapped and ransomed so dad had to be escorted by armed guards when he went on site. My mum had not been working as she had given up her job to go be with my dad for that year. Before that mum had only been working part-time from when I was about 15. If you owned your own business as Sunak's mother did, you could probably make your money go much further as there are far more tax-planning opportunities. If she had a Ltd company - I don't know if Sunak's mother did open a Ltd - there was probably even better tax-planning opportunities available.

Like many aspirational immigrants, my father was a risk-taker and he was able to persuade my mother to take risks with him. She is not a natural risk-taker preferring safety and security, which meant she would make sure the money was saved or spent carefully.

I never felt deprived growing up - I just remember when my brother and I were young and asked to buy something "frivolous" or unnecessary e.g. to buy a burger at Wimpy's, that my parents would remind us the money could be better spent educating relatives. While putting my brother and I through private school, my parents paid for education abroad for my cousins. One first cousin is a doctor, in the US, another is an electrical engineer now in IT (both girls). My parents helped arrange marriages for relatives, paid dowries, loaned money. They also were political activists as well as doing charity work to try to help their community in Sri Lanka, who were being systematically oppressed through racist Sri Lankan government policy and who faced arbitrary arrest and torture from the government and mass murder in communal riots. I remember a couple of men staying in our house after the 1983 riots when I was a kid - my mum collected them from the refugee/immigration centre somewhere near London and mum sponsored them to stay in the UK (my dad was in Nigeria at the time). Mum had no idea who they were - someone had apparently called her and said they were a relative of a relative from my dad's village. Back then it was really hard to make or receive international calls to and from Nigeria so mum could not check with my dad. The wife of one of these refugees who mum sponsored joined her husband in the UK in the 1990s, once he had found a place to stay, and fast forward 20 years and she was kind enough to agree to tutor my eldest daughter (who was dyslexic) in Year 10 and Year 11 for her GCSEs and refused to accept more than a notional payment of £10 for each lesson - my daughter got all As and A*s. I think that's a kind of cool end to that story.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Which doesn't seem to fit with the Sunak experience - likely relocated in the late 70s yet within a couple of years were living in a rather nice residential road with a young baby Sunak and a couple years later able to afford not just a 6 bedroom house but to send child number one (and thereafter the other two children) not just to private school but just about the most expensive private education going - being a boarder at Winchester College.

Just watched Rishi Sunak's video for the 1st time, and it says his mother came to the UK in the 1960s when she was 15, lived in Southampton and studied to be a pharmacist. It was her mother ie Sunak's grandmother who initially came to the UK in the 1960s without her husband and children, whom she had left in East Africa. Sunak's grandmother came to the UK with very little money, got a job and settled in Southampton and saved enough to send for her husband and children.

By the time Rishi Sunak's mother finished school in the UK from 15-18yrs, went to university, qualified as a pharmacist and started earning and then married a GP, the couple (ie Rishi Sunak's parents) would have been able to afford a decent-sized house in Southampton in the 1980s if they got a mortgage and had saved for a deposit. If Rishi Sunak went to Winchester for his secondary education, that would give them plenty of time to save for the school fees after buying the house. Especially if Rishi Sunak's mother had her own pharmacy rather than being an employee for someone else. So, Rishi Sunak's parents were middle-class, as reflected by their professions and by their decision to prioritise spending any money they earned on their children's education rather than spend their money on holidays or other things. The headmaster of Winchester said many of the parents who sent their children to Winchester were middle class professionals who had made a conscious choice to pay for a good education and sacrifice in other areas of their lives. See this link to a book called Middle Classes, Their Rise and Sprawl https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/_/s98O6mjm94UC?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PT109

[Harrowby Hall]

Winchester is fairly close to Southampton. Is it feasible that Rishi Sunak went to school as a day boy rather than a boarder?

[Udayana]

Not sure but I think if you haven't experienced it you can't imagine it's possible. I grew up here in the UK and I find it hard to imagine it's possible because my mindset is far less aspirational than my parents though I have inherited the careful spending approach, but nowhere near to the extent they took it.
...

Indeed, much the same here, though, my mum had a cautious and careful nature and upbringing but my dad had all the risk taking elements. Because of the initial success of the business he seemed to have cast off any caution he may have had. I have a mixture of both attitudes, recognising my tendency to risk taking and addictive behaviour and having learnt to manage it.

I would have been sent to a public school but refused to after the interview as the head and school itself seemed to have come straight out of Gormenghast and like a prison compared to the jewel of a grammar school, set in the green English countryside, that had offered me a place. 

Apart from also supporting family in India in the early days there were any number of "hangers on", other Indian immigrants (not that many in the East End at that time - 50's early 60's), the London "fast set" ... bankers, actors and so on. After bankruptcy and marriage breakdown my mum took a job as a maths teacher to support me through uni and my younger siblings through school to uni.       

In contrast, my parents-in-law lived very modestly and supported all of my father-in-laws siblings (I think there were about 9) through education, etc. As in other cases my mother-in-law left her children in India and came first, on the promise of teaching work - but after arriving, struggled for a couple years as schools would not actually give jobs to non-whites.
 

[Udayana]

Just watched Rishi Sunak's video for the 1st time, and it says his mother came to the UK in the
...

Thanks, that is useful ... I've not seen any videos or blogs .. just not had the time to try and find an independent reliable source.   

[Udayana]

Winchester is fairly close to Southampton. Is it feasible that Rishi Sunak went to school as a day boy rather than a boarder?

Don't think so ... 

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Indeed, much the same here, though, my mum had a cautious and careful nature and upbringing but my dad had all the risk taking elements. Because of the initial success of the business he seemed to have cast off any caution he may have had. I have a mixture of both attitudes, recognising my tendency to risk taking and addictive behaviour and having learnt to manage it.

I would have been sent to a public school but refused to after the interview as the head and school itself seemed to have come straight out of Gormenghast and like a prison compared to the jewel of a grammar school, set in the green English countryside, that had offered me a place. 

Apart from also supporting family in India in the early days there were any number of "hangers on", other Indian immigrants (not that many in the East End at that time - 50's early 60's), the London "fast set" ... bankers, actors and so on. After bankruptcy and marriage breakdown my mum took a job as a maths teacher to support me through uni and my younger siblings through school to uni.       

In contrast, my parents-in-law lived very modestly and supported all of my father-in-laws siblings (I think there were about 9) through education, etc. As in other cases my mother-in-law left her children in India and came first, on the promise of teaching work - but after arriving, struggled for a couple years as schools would not actually give jobs to non-whites.

I had to look up Gormenghast - can see why the grammar school would be more appealing. I would have preferred a grammar school rather than private for my kids if there was one available near our home. My impression is that they spoon feed you in private school whereas grammar seems as though it requires more independent effort from the pupils. 

I went to dinner with my parents last night and asked them about how they managed in the 1970s. Dad said if it wasn't for my grandmother (mum's mum) they would not have managed - apparently, she did an excellent job of cutting corners to make savings to manage with the money coming in. I remember she had a sewing machine and repaired our clothes and shopped and cooked and did the laundry etc and she and my grandfather looked after us kids while my parents worked. My mum was studying for her Registrar exams and she was on-call so my grandmother did most of the running of the home. She was a pretty amazing woman - she died of cancer when I was 9 and my grandfather died of cancer when I was 12.

Dad said the Nigerian company's money came in as a lump sum after he was not paid for ages and he used that as a deposit for the 4 bed detached house, plus the equity from the sale of the previous house, plus a mortgage plus he got an overdraft from the bank.  I guess the risk paid off for them. Dad was lucky. They managed to be mortgage-free by 2002.

My dad said it was hard to get rental accommodation at first in the 70s due to racism but getting a job was ok. My mum got her job in Birmingham from Sri Lanka as the NHS needed qualified doctors so she did not have to interview. She also wore a sari to work every day (even in the winter) so did not need to buy new clothes for work and she didn't wear make-up. I guess that would have saved money. 

[ProfessorDavey]

Winchester is fairly close to Southampton. Is it feasible that Rishi Sunak went to school as a day boy rather than a boarder?

Feasible, but not the case.

It is well documented that Sunak attended Winchester College as a boarder - current annual fees are £45,936 per year, noting that Sunak did not receive a bursary or scholarship.

And to comment on points made by other posters - firstly Udayana is absolutely correct - lumping all private school costs together is non-sense. There is world of difference between a fairly low ranking private school as a day pupil, that might be of the order of £10k per year and an elite private school such as Winchester as a boarder.

Also on VG's claims that if you don't drink/smoke etc you'll be able to afford these fees - what complete non-sense. Let's do the maths, how many pints of beer would you have to drink a year to afford the £45,936 Winchester fees - let's assume £4 a pint - that would be 11,484 pints a year or 31 pints a day. If you were drinking at that level, you'd be dead. And that's just Rishi - he has two other siblings too.

Fundamentally to be able to decide what to spend £45,936 of your disposal take home pay on either school fees or other non-essential stuff (alcohol, smoking, make-up etc) you have to have £45,936 worth of disposable income in your take home pay. Most people don't. Indeed the average salary in the UK is £25k, which equates to about £21k after tax. So for two average earners that would be £42k total take home income - sure they can afford £45,936 a year (for just one kid) by cutting down on the booze and fags

Bottom line - Rishi's claim of humble beginnings is laughable - a guy whose family were moving from a 4-bed house to a 6-bed house (not much evidence of reining in the expenditure there) just at the point when he was being sent to private prep-school and then on to being a boarder at one of the most elitist and expensive private schools in the country. His background is achingly privileged and no amount of carefully curated and selective narrative about his grandparents (note he only really mentions one) changes this.

Oh and by the way the suggestion that his mother owned the pharmacy business during his school days is a compete red herring - a quick check reveals that she only started the pharmacy as a company in 2003, and Ashcroft's biography of Sunak suggests that through the 90s Sunak's mother was largely working only part-time as a locus pharmacist, so largely the eye-watering fees (presumably not just for Rishi would have had to come from his father's NHS income as a GP (through the 1980s and 1990s average salary adjusted to today's money was approx. £60-70k or about £30-35k take home).