Author Topic: Should he stay or should he go?  (Read 23876 times)

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #450 on: July 07, 2022, 05:51:33 PM »
So let me get this straight.
Several dozen tory MP's resigned from nice little posts to stop the damage Johnson was doing to their party in it's tracks.

And now they are letting him stay as prime minister possibly until October.

jeremyp

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #451 on: July 07, 2022, 06:09:32 PM »
Nope. The nature of Johnson was clear for years before he became PM. That analogy doesn't work.

That some voters refused to see those faults speaks volumes for either their own venality or alternatively, naivety.

It is, unfortunately exactly what they voted for.

A lot of Labour party members refused to see Jeremy Corbyn's faults even after he lost his first general election.

Demonising the people who disagree with you is not helpful.

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jeremyp

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #452 on: July 07, 2022, 06:10:14 PM »
Good that he's going but you they're just going to replace him with another idiot toff!

In the short term, I'll take that over a lying idiot toff.
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Aruntraveller

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #453 on: July 08, 2022, 01:31:54 AM »
No, it is not. I voted for my local MP and, yes, he is a member of the Conservative Party. At no point was I unaware of the opinions of Boris which is why I did not vote for him at all. To dare to think that all the mistakes the Conservative Party are making are because all Conservative Party   members havne't got a sensible brain amongst them is in itself an unintelligent opinion. To imply that all Conservative Party members are empty-headed is an arrogance.

Dodging responsibility. You may have voted for your local MP but you were endorsing Johnson as PM. We've been on this merry go round before and I doubt we will agree, but the commentariat and lots of Tories have been at pains to tell me that the reason the Tories won the election was because of JOhnson's unique appeal to the electorate. You can't have it both ways. You at the very least endorsed Johnson by your vote for your local MP. It really is as simple as that. I endorsed Corbyn by voting for my local Labour MP. It is the way our system now works.
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Udayana

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #454 on: July 08, 2022, 01:00:15 PM »
 ffs ... hasn't anyone told him that leave means LEAVE!

 Tories should get a grip and replace Johnson with a responsible interim caretaker, not let him stay in place to screw up the coming government.

 Our unwritten constitution is really hopeless, formed over the years to keep power and wealth in the hands of those that already have power and wealth.
   
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

SteveH

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #455 on: July 08, 2022, 01:32:47 PM »
If the tory mps have any sense, they'll elect someone boring and monochrome as the next PM. Charismatic PMs are usually disastrous - witness Thatcher and Johnson Even Churchill was a bit of a disaster during his second, peace-time term. Attlee, otoh, was famously dull, but was arguably the best peace-time PM in the last hundred years, if not longer.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #456 on: July 08, 2022, 02:07:46 PM »
If the tory mps have any sense, they'll elect someone boring and monochrome as the next PM. Charismatic PMs are usually disastrous - witness Thatcher and Johnson Even Churchill was a bit of a disaster during his second, peace-time term. Attlee, otoh, was famously dull, but was arguably the best peace-time PM in the last hundred years, if not longer.
I think there are many who will see Thatcher overall as a huge success but that aside wasn't May supposed to be boring and monochrome, as to an extent Brown was, and Major certainly was so not sure it works.


Was having a discussion elsewhere that the last person to lead their party into govt from opposition, and stay in office till after they lost was Heath.

SqueakyVoice

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #457 on: July 08, 2022, 07:01:20 PM »
Now, he's the first rat refusing to flee a sinking ship.
The rat is still clinging to the sinking ship while the others are fighting over who wil be the next captain. It's the Mutiny on the Ratty.
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Aruntraveller

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #458 on: July 09, 2022, 11:10:43 AM »
...
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

SteveH

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When conspiracy nuts start spouting their bollocks, the best answer is "That's what they want you to think".

jeremyp

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #460 on: July 09, 2022, 11:59:19 AM »
I think there are many who will see Thatcher overall as a huge success but that aside wasn't May supposed to be boring and monochrome, as to an extent Brown was, and Major certainly was so not sure it works.


Was having a discussion elsewhere that the last person to lead their party into govt from opposition, and stay in office till after they lost was Heath.

Gordon Brown was the ultimate boring and monochrome leader. It amazed me that nobody in the Labour Party saw that before he succeeded Tony Blair.
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jeremyp

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #461 on: July 09, 2022, 12:00:58 PM »
The rat is still clinging to the sinking ship while the others are fighting over who wil be the next captain. It's the Mutiny on the Ratty.

Somebody characterised this whole thing as the first time the sinking ship left the rat.
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Alan Burns

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #462 on: July 09, 2022, 12:14:45 PM »
So what has Boris done to merit his forced resignation?

He won a landslide majority for the Tory party
He got Brexit done.
Hundreds of lives were saved in the early days of the pandemic by early roll out of vaccines - unhindered by EU red tape regulations.
Many businesses were saved during the lockdown by the most generous furlough scheme in Europe.
Britain led the way in giving support to Ukraine to defend themselves from Russian attack.
He had a few drinks and a slice of cake with work colleagues during lock down.
He tried to cover up some of his errors which were blown up totally out of proportion by the media - which seemed to attach more importance to having cakes and drinks  than dealing with a looming third word war.

I hope Nadine Dorries will be successful in her endeavours to carry on the good work.
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Aruntraveller

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #463 on: July 09, 2022, 12:28:21 PM »
He won a landslide majority for the Tory party  Depends how you define it but 43.6% of the 67.3% of people who bothered to vote is not a landslide (that only happened because of the antiquated and frankly ridiculous nature of our voting system)

He got Brexit done. Lie

Hundreds of lives were saved in the early days of the pandemic by early roll out of vaccines - unhindered by EU red tape regulations. Lie

Many businesses were saved during the lockdown by the most generous furlough scheme in Europe.[/i][/b] Partially true

Britain led the way in giving support to Ukraine to defend themselves from Russian attack. Mostly true

He had a few drinks and a slice of cake with work colleagues during lock down. Lie - suitcases of booze


He tried to cover up some of his errors which were blown up totally out of proportion by the media - which seemed to attach more importance to having cakes and drinks  than dealing with a looming third word war. He lied about things repeatedly, changes his story, let others take the blame


I'm just recalling something about bearing false witness.....

Some of my own:

180,000 dead from covid, some of those lives at the beginning would have been saved by an earlier lockdown - True


Lowest growth rate in the G7. True

Highest inflation in the g7 true

Lied to the Queen True

Lied to parliament True

Highest number of food banks ever True

Highest number of migrants crossing the channel True

I could go on but frankly I'm a little worried about the bandwidth.....
« Last Edit: July 09, 2022, 12:39:37 PM by Trentvoyager »
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

jeremyp

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #464 on: July 09, 2022, 12:35:39 PM »
So what has Boris done to merit his forced resignation?
He broke his own laws with respect to COVID19 lockdowns and then lied about it to parliament. That by itself should have been enough. But like the mendacious arsehole he is, he clung on to power. He hasn't got an ounce of integrity.

He's also a serial adulterer. Remember that commandment that your religion touts?

Quote
He won a landslide majority for the Tory party
Partly because the opposition was weak.
Quote
He got Brexit done.
But he didn't did he. He screwed up the Northern Ireland protocol so badly that he was trying to weasel out of it.
Quote
Hundreds of lives were saved in the early days of the pandemic by early roll out of vaccines - unhindered by EU red tape regulations.
EU red tape would have had no effect on the vaccine roll out. The government did do quite well on that but EU countries have since overtaken us and we mustn't forget Boris's indecisiveness at the beginning of the pandemic when his failure to order a lock down killed a lot of people.
Quote
Many businesses were saved during the lockdown by the most generous furlough scheme in Europe.
That is true, although we are paying for it now.
Quote
Britain led the way in giving support to Ukraine to defend themselves from Russian attack.
I think of that as a "look a squirrel" moment. It was fortunate for Ukraine that Boris needed something to distract us from the mundane problem of having a lying shit running the country.
Quote
He had a few drinks and a slice of cake with work colleagues during lock down.
He tried to cover up some of his errors which were blown up totally out of proportion by the media - which seemed to attach more importance to having cakes and drinks  than dealing with a looming third word war.
My friend had to inform his mother about the death of his father and her husband by shouting through the letterbox of her house. Don't give me that shit about it only being a few cakes and drinks.

There are several levels to this. First there was the actual offence, which was fairly minor. But then we are talking about an alleged professional organisation that seemed to be in permanent party mode while the country was burning down. Even if these people were behaving like teenagers, surely they could have seen that the optics looked really bad from a political perspective? It all bespeaks a badly run organisation with an unprofessional culture and politically clueless people. If the project I am on was run like that we'd all be fired. But this isn't a minor IT project for there NHS, it's the office of the prime minister.

Then, of course BJ lied about it all in parliament. That by itself would have been enough for a resignation. BJ has treated parliament and the country with contempt. He must go.

Quote
I hope Nadine Dorries will be successful in her endeavours to carry on the good work.
Do you know somerthing we don't.
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jeremyp

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #465 on: July 09, 2022, 12:38:55 PM »

Highest number of migrants crossing the channel True


I don't think you can claim BJ is responsible for that.

On the other hand, you can blame him for trying to introduce legislation that might have made it illegal for the RNLI to rescue them from drowning. And you can blame him for trying to send them to Rwanda.
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Aruntraveller

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #466 on: July 09, 2022, 12:40:34 PM »
Quote
I don't think you can claim BJ is responsible for that.

He did promise to get the numbers down though.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Aruntraveller

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Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

SqueakyVoice

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #468 on: July 09, 2022, 12:59:39 PM »
????
Quote
It is somewhat ironic.. .the cabinet ministers Tory MPs changed their working conditions by withdrawing their labour.

(I've edited a little bit, but you get the gist.Just checked it, wasn't quite right before.
Edit- still a bit wrong, I cannot copy and paste it.  >:( .)
One out, all out eh comrades?

Now the flying pickets get a jet.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2022, 01:08:55 PM by SqueakyVoice »
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Gordon

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #469 on: July 09, 2022, 01:09:15 PM »
So what has Boris done to merit his forced resignation?

He won a landslide majority for the Tory party
He got Brexit done.

I, along with many of my fellow Scots, regard these two 'achievements' as disasters.

Quote
I hope Nadine Dorries will be successful in her endeavours to carry on the good work.

Presumably you're having a laugh here: were there a league table of Tory fuckwits I'd imagine she'd be in the top three.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #470 on: July 09, 2022, 03:25:50 PM »
PS Johnson also seeded covid in care homes by unlawfully ordering the discharge of patients back to care homes from hospitals.

He has blood on his hands.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

SteveH

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #471 on: July 09, 2022, 03:51:29 PM »

He's also a serial adulterer. Remember that commandment that your religion touts?

True and deplorable, but I don't think a politician's personal sexual morality should be relevant.
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jeremyp

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #472 on: July 10, 2022, 12:59:04 PM »
True and deplorable, but I don't think a politician's personal sexual morality should be relevant.

Yes, but I think it speaks to his general character and thus his suitability to be prime minister. It's not that he's committed adultery but that he does it again and again with no apparent thought to the consequences.
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SusanDoris

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #473 on: July 11, 2022, 06:24:30 AM »
So what has Boris done to merit his forced resignation?

He won a landslide majority for the Tory party
He got Brexit done.
Hundreds of lives were saved in the early days of the pandemic by early roll out of vaccines - unhindered by EU red tape regulations.
Many businesses were saved during the lockdown by the most generous furlough scheme in Europe.
Britain led the way in giving support to Ukraine to defend themselves from Russian attack.
He had a few drinks and a slice of cake with work colleagues during lock down.
He tried to cover up some of his errors which were blown up totally out of proportion by the media - which seemed to attach more importance to having cakes and drinks  than dealing with a looming third word war.

I hope Nadine Dorries will be successful in her endeavours to carry on the good work.
Well, my goodness me, there have been very few occasions when I have thought to myself, well said' after reading one of your posts!! However, on this occasion I listened to this one before cursoring back to see who the author was and was surprised! :)

And the points made about the news media finding that the cakes and drink vasty outweigh the good things is something that has annoyed me from the start of all the let's-pull-down-the-PM, because it's what they do to anyone with a high profile, regardless of the fact that there is no-one with the personality strong enoughneeded to replace him. All the lefty, Labour, Scottish Indepenndece etc supporters will, as you will have noticed from responses to my posts!, see things from a narrow perspective. Yes, he made a lot of mistakes, but you can be sure that as soon as another leader is chosen, those journalists will be probing through their past to find every little mistake they have ever made .

Ah well, the choice of two which will be for the choice for Party members to vote for will b interesting  - I hope!

ETA: (Second try  - must have pressed the wrong key and it disappeared) I have now read the intervening posts and as predictable as I suppose mine is! I forgot to say that the thought of Nadine Dorries getting anywhere near the top of the list of 11 candidates makes me shudder. That 11 are all, in my opinion, pale grey shadows of leaders. That Tugan-something is possible, I suppose, but I don't think I'll bother to look him up.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2022, 06:51:08 AM by SusanDoris »
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ad_orientem

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Re: Should he stay or should he go?
« Reply #474 on: July 11, 2022, 06:41:29 AM »
Well, my goodness me, there have been very few occasions when I have thought to myself, well said' after reading one of your posts!! However, on this occasion I listened to this one before cursoring back to see who the author was and was surprised! :)

And the points made about the news media finding that the cakes and drink vasty outweigh the good things is something that has annoyed me from the start of all the let's-pull-down-the-PM, because it's what they do to anyone with a high profile, regardless of the fact that there is no-one with the personality strong enoughneeded to replace him. All the lefty, Labour, Scottish Indepenndece etc supporters will, as you will have noticed from responses to my posts!, see things from a narrow perspective. Yes, he made a lot of mistakes, but you can be sure that as soon as another leader is chosen, those journalists will be probing through their past to find every little mistake they have ever made .

Ah well, the choice of two which will be for the choice for Party members to vote for will b interesting  - I hope!
Any public figure, especially a politician, just has to deal with that. They know this beforehand. And indeed it is the job of the press to make things public if it is in the public interest. Why should BoJo be let off lightly? Johnson has been shown time and time again to be lacking in any moral fibre. He has taken the piss out of the electorate.
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